Dutch Shepherd Forum

eclipse now live with paola and rembrandt is a very lucky dog.. He could see often his mum
i did the dna check and bran is certified son of "that" basta i have to start from this little piece of the puzzle and pay attention for the future when i will take decision to mate him.. I am very happy to have the opportunity to talk with you in this easy goin way thank u!!

You did not waste any time Elisa, you already did DNA
We are looking forward to your Rembrandt and Eclipse stories from Italy.
(I would really like to see Eclipses pictures, since I am the breeder of Eclipses grandmother Gotha, and still own great grandfather Nico)

it's not kind to tell, but i had to do dna if i wanted a fci pedigree, because my "breeders" have not worked as i hope.. You know.. If u want a job done right..do it by yourself

GreatRembrandt wrote:You know.. If u want a job done right..do it by yourself

Always true!!!!

GreatRembrandt wrote:eclipse now live with paola and rembrandt is a very lucky dog.. He could see often his mum
i did the dna check and bran is certified son of "that" basta i have to start from this little piece of the puzzle and pay attention for the future when i will take decision to mate him.. I am very happy to have the opportunity to talk with you in this easy goin way thank u!!

I had no doubts Basta was the father
And yes, it is a puzzle

well, at the moment i have a dutch shepherd with fci pedigree. with dna check. with the earlier HD control A-0 at 5 months. with a fantastic behaviour for sport. and he's also very very beautiful and in type.
if i listen to all voices i heard, also by mum there are some "troubles" with pedigree.... those brindle breeders have always to hidden something, i have to suppose...
by now, i have to start from the dog i have, if i go to buy a dog i take as truth what the breeder says to me, or not?

I think you are mistaking the comments about lineage for an attack. It was not.
It was a simple statement that someone liked your dog, but had doubts about the true identities of some of the ancestors on paper. That, however, is the RULE when it comes to working DS's. True working drive, almost lost in the pure FCI lines, cannot be re introduced without outside influence. Genetic traits, once lost, do not pop back up by accident, and if they did, then it is a fluke, that will not reproduce on in the offspring. (so the dog in question will not reproduce pups that equal it's own qualities) Some FCI breeders have re introduced some working drives by openly using working line dogs. Others have used working line dogs but listed a different 'pure' parent on the paperwork. This particular Dutch shepherd community consists for a large part of working Dutch shepherds. You are not judged on your dogs paperwork, but rather on your dogs contents. I don't think anybody here thinks less about your dog because of what his papers say about him. What counts is what kind of dog he is and yes, you are right: As a buyer, you have to work with what your dogs breeder presented to you. I think your Rembrandt is a good looking dog and I hope and suspect that his work will make you proud and we hope to hear much more of him and you in the future.

thank u so much judith, please excuse me for my english! i feel bad when i see some malitch o.O are born with two brindle parents. And i assure u that here it has happened. I dont know why some "breeders" dont respect their (and after, our) dogs and make those mess. In italy malinois breeders are considered dog sellers, because of the troubles they did, i hope only they don't do the same with dutchies..

GreatRembrandt wrote:thank u so much judith, please excuse me for my english! i feel bad when i see some malitch o.O are born with two brindle parents. And i assure u that here it has happened. I dont know why some "breeders" dont respect their (and after, our) dogs and make those mess. In italy malinois breeders are considered dog sellers, because of the troubles they did, i hope only they don't do the same with dutchies..

I am not entirely sure I understand what you mean, but malinois colored pups can indeed be born from two brindle parents. That does NOT (have to) mean that one or both of the parents are half malinois. The recessive gene that causes the lack of brindle also happens in pure and unquestionable FCI bloodlines. However, there it happens mostly in the Long haired variety, because they have an even smaller gene pool than the short haired ones, and recessive genes tend to easily meet when the population is small like that. In the short haired DS's, the occurrence of yellow rarely happens in show lines. It happens a lot more in the working lines, but if a breeder is worried about producing non-brindle pups, it is fairly easy to avoid by doing a simple genetic test for the 'ky' allele and only mating a hetrozygous dog (kbr/ky) to one that is homozygous for brindle (kbr/kbr) None of the pups will be malinois colored in that combination.
I hope that helped.

but non_brindle dutchies couldn't be sold as mali, or in case they have long hair as tervueren, or in case they are grey as german shepherd right?? with the same mom and dad, of course.. o.O because here, this magical event happened... Just to say how serious a breeder could be... And i'm not joking, unfortunately..

GreatRembrandt wrote:but non_brindle dutchies couldn't be sold as mali, or in case they have long hair as tervueren, or in case they are grey as german shepherd right?? with the same mom and dad, of course.. o.O because here, this magical event happened... Just to say how serious a breeder could be... And i'm not joking, unfortunately..

You know that in the late early 20th century, when both the Dutch Shepherd and the Belgian shepherd breeds were young, the different colored offspring could be registered in the other breed group.
Yellow DS's could be entered under the Belgian breed, and brindle Belgians could be registered as Dutch.
We will just have to assume that the breeders you are referring to, did not get the memo that those rules have changed.

I was not judging your dog, or you I even really like some of the dogs that were "mixed in" I only dislike the people that did it secretly and lie to people like you Because that is what they do. Now you would like to breed your great dog, but you have no way of being sure what all his ancestors are, and I am sorry for that. Just wanted to make sure you were not in for a surprise, like others have been. If you will breed this male, this is important for you to know, so you know what to expect. Normally, you would judge inheriting traits by the pedigree too, in this case, just judge by your own dog and his parents, forget the rest. Just trying to help you out

thank u marjolein, i really need your help! i am very grateful to know you both...