Izzie is BUSY!

[LyonsFamily]

Rob, check out antlers for her to chew. Mine is 2.5 years old and has to chew a lot...antlers aren't as hard as recreational bones, tho she has chipped a couple of her molars. She has to chew, tho, so these are the best natural thing I"ve found so far.

I didn't realize Geyser was the same age as Odin! He does well with the antlers too. It's the only thing I can leave him with in his xpen when we're gone.

[RobS10]

Rob, check out antlers for her to chew. Mine is 2.5 years old and has to chew a lot...antlers aren't as hard as recreational bones, tho she has chipped a couple of her molars. She has to chew, tho, so these are the best natural thing I"ve found so far.

I remember seeing those at the store a while back...I'll look into them again. Thanks!

[RobS10]

I'm amazed at some people who'll just live with it, thinking "don't most dogs have diarrhea?" We've always tried to find food that isn't corn or wheat based and the Natural Balance Bison seems to be good so far, the chicken not so good. Here is the producthttp://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/produc ... ient+Diets

It's a good food. We sell at one of the boutiques I groom and train at and dogs seem to do well on it. If your dog has a sensitive stomach, Canine Cavier seems to work great as well.

Personally, this is why I choose to feed raw because I know exactly what was eaten and the poop should reflect it. Organs and certain red meats will make it darker and loose and that's ok as long as it reflects what went in and higher bone contents make it firm. It's really helped me get more in touch with his health.

If it continues to be an on-going struggle with it, home cooked or raw diets are much easier to help you with eliminating what causes certain problems. Home cooked allows you to stay with limited, chosen ingredients, if you're insure about raw or bones for whatever reason.

If it were practical to cook her meals, we would. We do if she has diarrhea, but on a regular basis, it's not practical since my wife and I both work and have an 8 yr old and never seem to have the time every night. That's why we wanted to find a food she'd tolerate that had good, balanced nutrition to keep her healthy.

[RobS10]

oh, Rob, btw, it does sound like you have variety. no need to add more just for the sake of it. but the monotony suggested by some, including vets, is sad for nutrition and quality-of-life. I was trying to suggest additional things that are easy, good nutrition, and may well work for Izzie.

To give her a little change, is it OK to change her type of of food, from say the Bison formula to the Venison formula (keeping the same brand), and if so, I assume slowly? I've always wondered why we as humans can have burgers one night and pasta the next, and don't have a problem, but always heard dogs shouldn't be switched completely like that. I would assume in the wild, they aren't going to be able to eat the same critter every night;-).

[johninny]

some people feed one food day-in and day-out. if a dog subjected to such a mono diet suddenly switched, then it may have trouble just like long-time vegans going whole-hog on a meat diet. dogs whose diet varies anyway should do ok. you have to be the judge based on how varied her diet is already. I am guessing, based on what you have said, that she already has variety and thus will take change well.
my dogs have always had their menu change daily. canned food is always merrick, but keep on hand and switch among 3 versions: smothered comfort[ chicken breast on the bone ], wild buffalo, and working dog stew [ organ meats]. what I mix in with that does not vary much because the mixing is focused on certain nutrient supplements that are easiest to mix in with the stew, like the platinum performance CJ [ highly recommended !], a probiotic capsule or liquid [ highly recommended, esp for Izzie!], apple cider vinegar, olive oil, more ground flax seed, chopped and/or cooked leafy greens I may already have handy, herbs, and any other vitamin pills I may add every few day [ like vit e, ascorbyl acid, dandelion extract for nutrient absorption, and plant extracts to prevent eye cataracts]. the addition of leafy greens, herbs, banana, sweet potato/squash to this breakfast is the one thing that varies a lot and is primarily dependent on what's ready in the kitchen. I try always to have bananas and I plan my own diet with the objective of sharing with the dogs things that will help them and give them variety.
at least one of their other 2 meals is going to be dry food: merrick grain-free bison [or sometimes pork or duck] OR kiwi peak venison/fish variety where the venison content is muscle and organ meats [ all air-dried][ I used this as Tracedog's exclusive dry food as its nutritional quality far exceeds any other dry food I know, but the young dogs since him eat soooooo much that they have to settle for a high-quality kibble of less cost as the kiwi peak is really a high price. if there are 2 dry-based meals, at least one will have whole food added, most frequent is ground flax, olive oil, and a can of sardines [water-packed, but leaving out the salted water], but again it could be anything in the frig or garden that is good for them that they have not already had for breakfast. last night, I cooked an eye-round of grass-fed beef that I get from a farmer for the dog [at these times, I can't help but steal some of their food !!]. cooked rare - so now for a few days, bits of that and its blood gets added to the dry dish, with flax, oil , herbs, etc
at some point each evening there is also a snack of fat-free yogurt or cottage cheese with added fruit, usually banana or apple, but every few weeks treat the dogs and myself to melon, again for variety of nutrients for them and me. in season, could be blueberries, etc. sometimes [often?] go gourmet and add fresh thyme, oregano, or rosemary and perhaps a dash again of vinegar [ and more probiotic if there is reason to think their intestinal protection needs bolstering]. this last snack the dogs and I will have equally - and it is delicious and healthy!
the dog's ''raw'' diet is blood of their grass-fed angus from the farmer I trust, not quite raw beef, and, more importantly, a raw marrow bone every other day - or more frequently if I can manage it. I know all of this sounds like a lot of work, but it is not as all the ingredients are at hand - open the can or bag of dry, add scoop of this and that, mix and feed. all the 'added' stuff is in frig or in cabinet next to frig above counter where I prepare dog's meal. takes 5 min or less but the additives - fruit, veggies, supplements need to be there [ and if there are none for a couple day - tough ! - they eat dog food like normal dogs]. first complicated meal takes 4 or 5 min because I am slow and methodical, the dry meal[s] takes 1 or 2 min; their dairy and fruit dessert takes 20 sec if simple [ just banana] to a couple min for other fruit and additions.
the ONE thing I do that is time-consuming is preparing the marrow bone so it will do no harm. first, the butcher gets me quality bones and then cuts them to my specification so that all the bone is fairly sturdy - avoiding the parts that flare out. the bone thins and looses structural integrity in the flaring ends and also, these parts are covered with thick fat of varying consistency that is very difficult to remove. I keep the bones in the freezer [ get them frozen], take one out and let thaw very slightly, and then take a very strong, cerated knife and remove ALL the fat, fatty meat, etc from the exterior. usually quick and easy if the butcher has done his job well and provide bones with relatively straight and non-flaring shapes. dogs CANNOT have this fat; it will cause damage which you may see quickly as pancreatitis. free of fat on outside, the marrow is great for them [ and is my dogs' raw diet ] and the bone chewing is amazing for their teeth like nothing else.
this is WAY more than the simple question you asked, but aside from a little planning and the bone prep, none of this feeding takes time. also, my dogs get so much variety every day [ I left out the multitude of treat/snacks] that their systems do not respond to any change any more than our systems do. some days, they have dramatic change [ for great special meals ] with no ill effect; quite the opposite - it makes them so happy. you are exactly right, their natural diet would vary tremendously day-to-day; and variety and change are nutritionally positive.
the one thing I do not really change: dog foods - even the best - are not going to have grass-fed beef, free-range chicken, salmon caught in the wild, etc., so I never buy beef dog foods [ only bison ], no fancy-fish dog food like salmon or trout as it would be farmed, merrick canned chicken every other day because they get to EAT the bone and the chicken does not do active harm, and the working dog stew because it is valuable and diverse organ meat. so, I try with dog food to keep it to bison and fish that are widely caught at sea [ sardines,etc - the kiwi peak is good]. even venison from this country has its problems [ a preon like causes mad cow disease is surprisingly prevalent in the us population of wild deer [ and thus, I assume, even more so in raised deer - but don't know], tho this does not keep me away from venison entirely for me or the dogs since at least the deer are not eating corn! . basically, if the animal that is being fed to the dogs has not been raised naturally - on grass, at sea, free-range to eat bugs and seeds, then it will have almost no nutritional benefit [ only calories] and will likely do harm [ beef more harm from bad-fat content, farmed fish have poisons, fowl are probably neutral - no harm but no real nutrition at least from chicken]

[Nicola lee]

Haha I get that with my pebbles she came into rescue as gsd x staff have posted a pic in general chat.
People ask if she a hyena lol, but I'm sure she looks like a Dutch Shepard

[johninny]

Rob, I was re-ordering Platinum Performance CJ today; looked at their other 2 canine products; and ordered one I have never used before - Bio-Sponge. my relatively new rescue, Sakima, who fended for himself in the wild for 3 weeks until the morning I got him, tends to eat anything from the ground that he can get to first, just as Izzie does. [ thankfully, we have recently made huge progress in stopping this and is mostly in the country-side; crab legs the seagulls have left behind are his favorites and he continues to defy my wishes on the seagulls' leftovers. ] but the Bio-sponge is designed to counteract toxins and pathogens that do make it into the intestines. maybe this, along with probiotics, could sharply curtail any problems for Izzie while she learns not to scavenge. [ one review also said it put an end to severe diarrhea occasioned by a change of diet for a litter of puppies.]
though Saki has not had any diarrhea since I got rid of the worms and other intestinal bugs that he came into my care with, he has developed semi-prolific goo in one eye the last few days, which indicates to me an infection of some sort. could just be a very mild cold. I have found in my experience with my dogs that intestinal infection has been accompanied by eye goo, but the eye goo does not tell me the infection has to be intestinal. given that I have not yet definitely won the debate on scavenging that Saki and I are having, I ordered the Bio-sponge.

[Dutchringgirl]

If she isnt showing any signs of HD, I would just have a blast with her and not worry, these dogs are so active. As far as tummy issues, it depends. Thalie, my 10yo can eat (and does) anything and she is fine (well, except for the day she munched on every pile of deer poop then threw up on my carpet). But my 2yo has a bit more of a delicate tummy, as I found out last fall when she gassed me out of my bedroom. She is a very beautiful dog and I would say DS, the fluffy tail and butt feathers, maybe GS? Mine as well have been called everything, Dingo (sorry dingo), Hyena, Coyote, Mix (Gasp) you name it.

[RobS10]

some people feed one food day-in and day-out. if a dog subjected to such a mono diet suddenly switched, then it may have trouble just like long-time vegans going whole-hog on a meat diet. dogs whose diet varies anyway should do ok. you have to be the judge based on how varied her diet is already. I am guessing, based on what you have said, that she already has variety and thus will take change well.
my dogs have always had their menu change daily. canned food is always merrick, but keep on hand and switch among 3 versions: smothered comfort[ chicken breast on the bone ], wild buffalo, and working dog stew [ organ meats]. what I mix in with that does not vary much because the mixing is focused on certain nutrient supplements that are easiest to mix in with the stew, like the platinum performance CJ [ highly recommended !], a probiotic capsule or liquid [ highly recommended, esp for Izzie!], apple cider vinegar, olive oil, more ground flax seed, chopped and/or cooked leafy greens I may already have handy, herbs, and any other vitamin pills I may add every few day [ like vit e, ascorbyl acid, dandelion extract for nutrient absorption, and plant extracts to prevent eye cataracts]. the addition of leafy greens, herbs, banana, sweet potato/squash to this breakfast is the one thing that varies a lot and is primarily dependent on what's ready in the kitchen. I try always to have bananas and I plan my own diet with the objective of sharing with the dogs things that will help them and give them variety.
at least one of their other 2 meals is going to be dry food: merrick grain-free bison [or sometimes pork or duck] OR kiwi peak venison/fish variety where the venison content is muscle and organ meats [ all air-dried][ I used this as Tracedog's exclusive dry food as its nutritional quality far exceeds any other dry food I know, but the young dogs since him eat soooooo much that they have to settle for a high-quality kibble of less cost as the kiwi peak is really a high price. if there are 2 dry-based meals, at least one will have whole food added, most frequent is ground flax, olive oil, and a can of sardines [water-packed, but leaving out the salted water], but again it could be anything in the frig or garden that is good for them that they have not already had for breakfast. last night, I cooked an eye-round of grass-fed beef that I get from a farmer for the dog [at these times, I can't help but steal some of their food !!]. cooked rare - so now for a few days, bits of that and its blood gets added to the dry dish, with flax, oil , herbs, etc
at some point each evening there is also a snack of fat-free yogurt or cottage cheese with added fruit, usually banana or apple, but every few weeks treat the dogs and myself to melon, again for variety of nutrients for them and me. in season, could be blueberries, etc. sometimes [often?] go gourmet and add fresh thyme, oregano, or rosemary and perhaps a dash again of vinegar [ and more probiotic if there is reason to think their intestinal protection needs bolstering]. this last snack the dogs and I will have equally - and it is delicious and healthy!
the dog's ''raw'' diet is blood of their grass-fed angus from the farmer I trust, not quite raw beef, and, more importantly, a raw marrow bone every other day - or more frequently if I can manage it. I know all of this sounds like a lot of work, but it is not as all the ingredients are at hand - open the can or bag of dry, add scoop of this and that, mix and feed. all the 'added' stuff is in frig or in cabinet next to frig above counter where I prepare dog's meal. takes 5 min or less but the additives - fruit, veggies, supplements need to be there [ and if there are none for a couple day - tough ! - they eat dog food like normal dogs]. first complicated meal takes 4 or 5 min because I am slow and methodical, the dry meal[s] takes 1 or 2 min; their dairy and fruit dessert takes 20 sec if simple [ just banana] to a couple min for other fruit and additions.
the ONE thing I do that is time-consuming is preparing the marrow bone so it will do no harm. first, the butcher gets me quality bones and then cuts them to my specification so that all the bone is fairly sturdy - avoiding the parts that flare out. the bone thins and looses structural integrity in the flaring ends and also, these parts are covered with thick fat of varying consistency that is very difficult to remove. I keep the bones in the freezer [ get them frozen], take one out and let thaw very slightly, and then take a very strong, cerated knife and remove ALL the fat, fatty meat, etc from the exterior. usually quick and easy if the butcher has done his job well and provide bones with relatively straight and non-flaring shapes. dogs CANNOT have this fat; it will cause damage which you may see quickly as pancreatitis. free of fat on outside, the marrow is great for them [ and is my dogs' raw diet ] and the bone chewing is amazing for their teeth like nothing else.
this is WAY more than the simple question you asked, but aside from a little planning and the bone prep, none of this feeding takes time. also, my dogs get so much variety every day [ I left out the multitude of treat/snacks] that their systems do not respond to any change any more than our systems do. some days, they have dramatic change [ for great special meals ] with no ill effect; quite the opposite - it makes them so happy. you are exactly right, their natural diet would vary tremendously day-to-day; and variety and change are nutritionally positive.
the one thing I do not really change: dog foods - even the best - are not going to have grass-fed beef, free-range chicken, salmon caught in the wild, etc., so I never buy beef dog foods [ only bison ], no fancy-fish dog food like salmon or trout as it would be farmed, merrick canned chicken every other day because they get to EAT the bone and the chicken does not do active harm, and the working dog stew because it is valuable and diverse organ meat. so, I try with dog food to keep it to bison and fish that are widely caught at sea [ sardines,etc - the kiwi peak is good]. even venison from this country has its problems [ a preon like causes mad cow disease is surprisingly prevalent in the us population of wild deer [ and thus, I assume, even more so in raised deer - but don't know], tho this does not keep me away from venison entirely for me or the dogs since at least the deer are not eating corn! . basically, if the animal that is being fed to the dogs has not been raised naturally - on grass, at sea, free-range to eat bugs and seeds, then it will have almost no nutritional benefit [ only calories] and will likely do harm [ beef more harm from bad-fat content, farmed fish have poisons, fowl are probably neutral - no harm but no real nutrition at least from chicken]

Wow...lot of info. Think I better print this out an share with my wife as she likes to organize the feeding more. I didn't know about the Mad Deer issue...yikes! I'm sure our local pet store has the Merrick.

BTW, we feel like Izzy would eat an entire 40lb. of dog food if we left it out, how much should be fed to a 65lb DS? I on-leash walk her 7 blocks in the morning, but she is only semi active during my work day, following me around my shop which is about 80 ft from one end to the other. She actually crashes out about 60% of the time there. Afternoon off-leash walk is in the park where she gets in good running about at her own pace. then to the "dog park" section for a little butt sniffing and chase with her buddies. I chuck the ball every so often there, or in the field for 10 minutes if we skip the Social Hour. We feed her two cups of the dry dog food, twice a day. We used to feed her another 1 to 1 1/2 cups for lunch when my wife had time to run her for 30 minutes at noon. Her weight seems to be pretty stable since she got over the on-off diarrhea.

[RobS10]

Rob, I was re-ordering Platinum Performance CJ today; looked at their other 2 canine products; and ordered one I have never used before - Bio-Sponge. my relatively new rescue, Sakima, who fended for himself in the wild for 3 weeks until the morning I got him, tends to eat anything from the ground that he can get to first, just as Izzie does. [ thankfully, we have recently made huge progress in stopping this and is mostly in the country-side; crab legs the seagulls have left behind are his favorites and he continues to defy my wishes on the seagulls' leftovers. ] but the Bio-sponge is designed to counteract toxins and pathogens that do make it into the intestines. maybe this, along with probiotics, could sharply curtail any problems for Izzie while she learns not to scavenge. [ one review also said it put an end to severe diarrhea occasioned by a change of diet for a litter of puppies.]
though Saki has not had any diarrhea since I got rid of the worms and other intestinal bugs that he came into my care with, he has developed semi-prolific goo in one eye the last few days, which indicates to me an infection of some sort. could just be a very mild cold. I have found in my experience with my dogs that intestinal infection has been accompanied by eye goo, but the eye goo does not tell me the infection has to be intestinal. given that I have not yet definitely won the debate on scavenging that Saki and I are having, I ordered the Bio-sponge.

Biosponge sounds like something good to have around. The seagull thing is pretty funny...we've taken her to the beach a couple times and she was in Seventh Heaven...dead stuff she could grab and run away with to munch down before we can catch her . For the most part though, the park doesn't have much bad stuff around. I do watch her pretty closely and try to keep getting her attention if she runs her nose along the ground for too long. There were a few mushrooms in December, but I was very careful to have her on-leash around them, and she never seemed interested when we got in sniffing distance, thank god!
She had a gooey eye a couple times...thick, white stuff. Didn't really seem to coincide with the diarrhea. We happened to be at the vet one time, and she gave us a tube of Antibiotic ointment that clears it up.

[RobS10]

If she isnt showing any signs of HD, I would just have a blast with her and not worry, these dogs are so active. As far as tummy issues, it depends. Thalie, my 10yo can eat (and does) anything and she is fine (well, except for the day she munched on every pile of deer poop then threw up on my carpet). But my 2yo has a bit more of a delicate tummy, as I found out last fall when she gassed me out of my bedroom. She is a very beautiful dog and I would say DS, the fluffy tail and butt feathers, maybe GS? Mine as well have been called everything, Dingo (sorry dingo), Hyena, Coyote, Mix (Gasp) you name it.

AHHH, nothing worse than a pile of deer poop, barfed up on your carpet! I'm sure she can handle the occasional weird thing as long as it's not poisonous or causes an obstruction. We just assumed every time she got diarrhea it was because she was eating funky stuff, but she's been great for a while now (think it was the food), but we've also been better at keeping her from eating any poop piles or other ground crap in a while either. Who knows!
Trying not to worry about HD, but just recently, she quit wanting to jump in the back of my truck (about a 3 ft jump). I always carry her down so she won't hurt her shoulders over time like our lab. Last few nights, she also won't jump up on our bed (we have one of those pillow top mattress beds so it's about 3ft. too). I think it's psychological (she wouldn't go down stairs when we first got her) because she isn't slowing down anywhere else, but we're keeping a close watch to see if she works through it.

[johninny]

really do not worry about eating venison because it would probably require regular exposure, but since bison is available I use that for dogs as their regular 'processed' red meat with the exception of the kiwi peak fish/venison organ meat that comes from NZealand. in other words, I do not use venison only because bison is so perfect.
my rule of thumb on weight/feeding is that ribs should not be seen, but they should be easily felt by touch. she should look slim. I kept Tracedog within 2 pounds of 70 for 12 years [ til he got sick]. his body found that weight naturally early on [ and the ribs test confirmed ] and then I helped him stay close to that weight. so the feeding amounts may have varied a lot over short and long periods, depending on his activity levels, desires, etc., but weight and body health remained constant. [ if you keep her weight perfect, you will get the occasional smart-ass person screaming at you to ''feed your dog!'' , since most people are so used to seeing obese dogs and think that must be their natural state.] keeping her slim is the best defense along with good nutrition to avoiding joint problems and arthritis.

[Dutchringgirl]

I used to be so insecure about taking Sadie out in public because she is a naturally long thin dog, and with her HD problems I keep her thin anyway. But after a while I said, who cares and went out. More people notice how scary she looks first anyway so they dont even notice her slim profile. the not wanting to jump would bother me, but I really noticed the signs when Sadie was going from a laying down position to getting up, she would yelp. If she is big she may not have developed the coordination yet to jump up? Did she miss once? I dont ask Sadie to jump in the back of my truck, its lifted any way and there is no way she can make it. I am going to make her a ramp this year so the stinky wet dogs can ride in the bed of my truck after swimming.

[RobS10]

keeping her slim is the best defense along with good nutrition to avoiding joint problems and arthritis.

That's what we were shooting for

[RobS10]

I used to be so insecure about taking Sadie out in public because she is a naturally long thin dog, and with her HD problems I keep her thin anyway. But after a while I said, who cares and went out. More people notice how scary she looks first anyway so they dont even notice her slim profile. the not wanting to jump would bother me, but I really noticed the signs when Sadie was going from a laying down position to getting up, she would yelp. If she is big she may not have developed the coordination yet to jump up? Did she miss once? I dont ask Sadie to jump in the back of my truck, its lifted any way and there is no way she can make it. I am going to make her a ramp this year so the stinky wet dogs can ride in the bed of my truck after swimming.

I asked my wife if she missed and fell, but apparently not. She was very good at jumping in, made it look really easy and she is very light on her feet. Now when I ask her to jump in, she puts her ears back in a submissive way. Don't understand yet.

[Dutchringgirl]

ok, the ears back is her telling you something. When was the last xray? She may have pulled something when she jumped a previous time and is worried it will hurt again.

[Sugars Mom]

Sometimes Sugar doesn't want to jump into our truck, or tries and seems to not make it all the way up and in...and other times it is totally fine. I don't think she has HD as she does the frog dog all the time, but she has never been tested. I can tell you that I've changed her diet more then once, and that seems to have gone away since being on Orijen. Just sharing my experience...

[RobS10]

ok, the ears back is her telling you something. When was the last xray? She may have pulled something when she jumped a previous time and is worried it will hurt again.

Never had an xray. She doesn't seem to be limping or running strangely. She takes off after a ball like normal, and she has no trouble standing up and licking faces. I think I'll give her a break from ball for a few days and see how she does...maybe she did pull something.

[Dutchringgirl]

Ok, Im sorry, i thought you posted you had her xray'd. What I noticed is Sadie was little cries when she got up from a down, not always though, it would depend on how she was laying. The yelps were often when she was in the truck. She is in the back seat so when she would get up from laying down it may have been tricky. Going up stairs was always tough for her. If she played super rough with Thalie I would hear a yelp then she would come limping in, but that is very rare. It wasnt a constant pain so It was hard to catch, the stairs was the trigger for me. It seems to show up as something just isnt right but you cant put your finger on it. She is in better shape now so it dosnt bother her as much as when she was a really goofy puppy. If it continues I would just bite the bullet and get an xray. At least then you will know what you are dealing with.

[johninny]

yes, i'm glad Lisa picked up on that. I was a bit worried - a dog that stops jumping - and on a bed no less! just watch for other tiny signals. these are DSs and a tiny signal is all you may ever get of anything gone wrong - even of big trouble. so a sign could mean something minor that passes or something major. aside from the injury issues that are possible, in my experience, not wanting to jump ONTO things [ where hind legs follow after the front ] - as opposed to lifting front legs high onto something [ which we humans also call jumping when it is really standing up] - has more often than not signaled internal discomfort of some sort - from what we would call indigestion to more serious matters like intestinal infection, pancreatitis, and hematomas [ which could also have come from a physical injury]. so I agree with Lisa that Izzie is telling you something but what that is is the question. just do not assume that the only answer is something concerning muscle, joints, tendons, etc.; it could just as well be something wrong in the abdomen which is already where Izzie has had problems.