Handling DS vs. GSDs?

[Marjolein]

on "mouthing" (the soft version of biting...)

Hey Marjolein,

Can I borrow this photo? I teach a class at the local hospital for expectant parents. I am always trying to describe a dog's version of a fair correction. That picture illustrates it perfectly!! I am pretty sure I could use it in a DOZEN different ways!

Sure you can, but on one condition, you will have to metion this is a Dutch Shepherd mom and pup every single time you show it, stating it's the greatest breed ever and blablabla, the usual good stuff

[Marjolein]

That's a great pic of the dog's natural correction!

Just an update on what happened last night. I decided to brush her fur, and realized that what she does is reach back to put her mouth on the brush not my hand (don't know if that makes any difference). I was remembering it wrong when I posted before). She only did it twice last night

only twice hmm, that's two too many But I suppose you got my point...
The brush is an extension of your arm.

[Sugars Mom]

I know twice is too much, but its better then 8! And its not an open mouth.

[Marjolein]

I know twice is too much, but its better then 8! And its not an open mouth.

ok, so you're not getting my point or we have different opinions :dswink"

[Kristie E]

I know twice is too much, but its better then 8! And its not an open mouth.

ok, so you're not getting my point or we have different opinions :dswink"

Sugar is still "correcting" you. I refer you back to the photo of Mama correcting her pup.

[Christie M]

Sure you can, but on one condition, you will have to metion this is a Dutch Shepherd mom and pup every single time you show it, stating it's the greatest breed ever and blablabla, the usual good stuff

You're scaring me Marjolein!! It sounds like you must have sat in on a few of my lectures and heard me make those statements.

[Marjolein]

Sure you can, but on one condition, you will have to metion this is a Dutch Shepherd mom and pup every single time you show it, stating it's the greatest breed ever and blablabla, the usual good stuff

You're scaring me Marjolein!! It sounds like you must have sat in on a few of my lectures and heard me make those statements.

I do actually I am everywhere....

[Sugars Mom]

I know twice is too much, but its better then 8! And its not an open mouth.

ok, so you're not getting my point or we have different opinions :dswink"

No, I get your point and I agree with you....lol, I just want to pretend I have the perfect pup

She is getting better is all I meant and today I brushed her, and zero corrections!

[Raven]

HA! THE PROCESS! It's a wonderful thing!

Pats on the back to you and Sugar Babies (do they make those candies anymore?). You're learning, you're getting there...both of you.

[Sugars Mom]

My GSD was very prey driven, but I never had any issues at all with her as far as any defensive reactions. My DS puppy is a bit more similar to yours, in that she lacks some confidence, but it sure doesn't show when she's in drive.

I've seen mentioned a few times on the forum about their dog lacking confidence and I was wondering if they could share some examples about what that looks like....anyone? Curious

[GSDNanny]

Leih stated:
"I'd love to hear a description of what "handled wrongly" would mean, exactly, with these two dogs. I figure you mean when they're firmly in their intense prey drive mode...what would constitute wrong handling for them? And, how would they react to it?"

You are right. When they are so firmly into their prey drive mode working or training, they each can cross into that point where anyone or anything that gets in the way of their prey is fair game. They want it, it is their's, they will have it. I would assume that is in defense of protecting that prey as their own, whether it is an actual live prey, the sleeve, a frisbee, etc. Am I right at this Judith? I stated in the previous post that I had not pushed them or participated beyond this point but actually I have, not intentionally mind you, and that is how I learned their limits; that line in the sand, so to speak.

A simple example. Say I am playing frisbee with Zip, my Dutch. I have learned to have many frisbees ready to throw because if I have only one, she will get in that mode to retrieve/possess it and if I have it on me, in my hand or slipped in the back of my pants, once released from her sit, she is going for it, intensely. If by chance there is a digit or skin in the way, too bad. Having multiple frisbees gives me a chance to constantly keep her going after another one. And did I say how fast she is!?!??

Both dogs have low or nil tolerance for a passive alert. They would just as soon tear up whatever is holding a source, scent item, etc. Needless to say, they would not make good bomb dogs!!


Leih stated:
I will always remember from some dog book I read that there are more differences between individuals within the same breed than between different breeds. Makes a lot of sense. Still, I know there are breed tendencies...[/quote]


I agree that this does definitely makes a lot of sense. But their are breed tendencies and pedigree line tendencies.

[leih merigian]

A simple example. Say I am playing frisbee with Zip, my Dutch. I have learned to have many frisbees ready to throw because if I have only one, she will get in that mode to retrieve/possess it and if I have it on me, in my hand or slipped in the back of my pants, once released from her sit, she is going for it, intensely. If by chance there is a digit or skin in the way, too bad. Having multiple frisbees gives me a chance to constantly keep her going after another one. And did I say how fast she is!?!??

Thanks for the description!

So, you don't see this at all as a training issue? Perhaps it isn't for you and Zip! (In other words, I am not challenging you at all, and am more than willing to accept that this can not be trained away in some dogs )

[leih merigian]

My GSD was very prey driven, but I never had any issues at all with her as far as any defensive reactions. My DS puppy is a bit more similar to yours, in that she lacks some confidence, but it sure doesn't show when she's in drive.

I've seen mentioned a few times on the forum about their dog lacking confidence and I was wondering if they could share some examples about what that looks like....anyone? Curious

Well, as a baby, hiding behind you instead of going up to confidently greet a stranger; showing avoidance towards people and things (trying to run/escape and hide); displaying submissive urination upon greeting (a pretty dead giveaway); front and back hackles going up for things that shouldn't be a concern, for a few examples.

[Dutchringgirl]

A simple example. Say I am playing frisbee with Zip, my Dutch. I have learned to have many frisbees ready to throw because if I have only one, she will get in that mode to retrieve/possess it and if I have it on me, in my hand or slipped in the back of my pants, once released from her sit, she is going for it, intensely. If by chance there is a digit or skin in the way, too bad. Having multiple frisbees gives me a chance to constantly keep her going after another one. And did I say how fast she is!?!??

Thanks for the description!

So, you don't see this at all as a training issue? Perhaps it isn't for you and Zip! (In other words, I am not challenging you at all, and am more than willing to accept that this can not be trained away in some dogs )

I wouldn't accept that from Thalie, If I have one ball that I am throwing, she will NOT under any circumstance take it from my hand unless I put it down low and she knows then I am offering it to her. Early on she would grab it from my hand and needless to say it hurt. So I taught her not to. I could hold the ball in front of her and waive it and she wont touch it. Its like putting a cookie out, would you accept them grabbing it out of your hand? Would you accept your child grabbing something from you?

[Kristie E]

A simple example............ once released from her sit, she is going for it, intensely. If by chance there is a digit or skin in the way, too bad. Having multiple frisbees gives me a chance to constantly keep her going after another one. And did I say how fast she is!?!??

Gwen is like this with some of my son's toys. We had the nerf guns out one day and she went ballistic over the pistol,.. she HAD to HAVE it and ate my Husband.

As for whether or not it is acceptable, you ll have to talk to some of the different trainers etc... I know I was told that I should expect/encourage it if I wanted to do any kind of bitework/sports with her. I can't and won't tolerate her biting my child, my husband ehh...everyman for himself. She also gets that excited REAL fast.

[Dutchringgirl]

i do understand the expecting part for good bite work, but i do want to keep my hands. Its what is important, I have children and don,t want them getting snapped, the wellbeing of me and my family came before any bite work, if it lessened the dog in the ring, then so be it. The only time I expect Thalie to go ballistic is when I bring the suit out.

[Kristie E]

I do agree, I like keeping my hands. :dswink"

[GSDNanny]

I too like keeping my hands/fingers intact! You are all probably right, it is probably a training issue if indeed I wanted to totally shut her drive down which I dont because she does train in bitework and scent. She is a working dog and not a social butterfly (I have a couple of other dogs that fit that category. ) That is why I said I know her limit therefore I stay one step ahead of the matter. She and I have worked it out. But she does have a very firm solid sit/stay until I release her and that is when her crazed 'switch' goes on. Her obedience is solid; her drives are over the top and I dont want that diminished or inhibited.

[GSDNanny]

i do understand the expecting part for good bite work, but i do want to keep my hands. Its what is important, I have children and don,t want them getting snapped, the wellbeing of me and my family came before any bite work, if it lessened the dog in the ring, then so be it. The only time I expect Thalie to go ballistic is when I bring the suit out.

But are your children around when the suit is brought out? Probably not. Therefore you have, as I have, worked out this matter in each situation. I do agree that the wellbeing of children or others in a household is premiere though. For me, it's all about Zip's work ethic, her going 'ballistic' for her reward/toy. Otherwise, she is calm and easy. But when she is ready to work, she gives it 110%!!

[Dutchringgirl]

But are your children around when the suit is brought out? Probably not. Therefore you have, as I have, worked out this matter in each situation. I do agree that the wellbeing of children or others in a household is premiere though. For me, it's all about Zip's work ethic, her going 'ballistic' for her reward/toy. Otherwise, she is calm and easy. But when she is ready to work, she gives it 110%!!

I do agree, around the house, they are house dogs, no nipping they wait for toys, the suit is the only thing she can go nuts over. That is what really "sold" me on this breed, the fact that they can go from napping to all out then back to napping. At least for the more family oriented pups, I know the dogs that are in the more competitive arenas are more "on it" all of the time.