Dutch Shepherd Forum

Any other suggestions for making Odin do "out" when he has something/anything in his mouth that I want? His "out" is horrible and I have been working on this with him with a high value treat in one hand while taking the object out with the other. It is a really slow process, which is ok, but he won't let go unless there is that treat. He can be somewhat possessive of whatever is in his mouth. He does not growl, but will turn his back and let you know that it's his, which in my book is a no-no.

When does one wean him off treat so he "outs" without one?

His "leave it" is much better.

I use the "Ivan" method. I call it the "Ivan" method because he's the one that showed it to me. It worked in 10 minutes, and I used it on all my following dogs. Balto had scooped up a baby bird in his mouth and I yelled "Los!" across the parking lot. He dropped the little bird immediately. The bird is fine.

This is what I was taught. Play tug. Loosen the slack and the dog will stop playing and likely open his mouth wide enough to drop it. Then immediately start playing tug again. Repeat many times. Don't forget to say "out" when the tug leaves the dog's mouth. The dog is rewarded immediately with the renewed game of tug. I hope your dog likes to play tug.

"Los" - hmmmmmm. I forgot about that word. Perhaps Odin knows it already. My husband and I think he knows this command, but with a different word other than "out". Will give that a try. Can you believe he really does not like to tug? His tug is ok and I will definitely try that. My non DS loves to tug and that's how I taught her "out", but with Odin it's been a bit more challenging.

this is the look I am going after for "out"

I did that with Sadie and it works. She would bring a toy to me, I would just stare at her, and she would drop it, When she opened her mouth to drop it I would say "OUT", she got the idea when she would bring me stuff and I wouldnt take it from her.

felixone123 wrote:Any other suggestions for making Odin do "out" when he has something/anything in his mouth that I want? His "out" is horrible and I have been working on this with him with a high value treat in one hand while taking the object out with the other. It is a really slow process, which is ok, but he won't let go unless there is that treat. He can be somewhat possessive of whatever is in his mouth. He does not growl, but will turn his back and let you know that it's his, which in my book is a no-no.

When does one wean him off treat so he "outs" without one?

His "leave it" is much better.

If he likes treats that is a great way to teach OUT but they key thing is that the treat has to be a reward and not a bribe, otherwise you will for ever be stuck like this. Have a treat in your hand but don't show it to him, keep that hand closed and by your side. Hold the toy with your other hand and just freeze and wait him out without saying a word. When he lets go, then throw a party and give him he treat and go right back to playing with the toy. Play for a few seconds, then freeze again and wait him out. Again, don't show him the treat but have one ready. The more you do this you will find that he will start to anticipate and will start to let go by himself as soon as you freeze, when he's doing that, you can introduce the verbal cue "out" as he is letting go. The reason for waiting to add the verbal cue is that you only want to name the behaviour once the behaviour is perfect. So if you name it too early, you may end up with a dog that thinks that out means take your time and eventually open my mouth, maybe regrip. If the dog is doing the behaviour perfectly when you name it, you eliminate all that confusion and don't have to reteach or fix things later. Do this enough times and then say "out" as you are just about to freeze, then throw a party and treat. This may take a few sessions but that's the basic progression.

You can do the same thing using the same toy as a reward if he isn't crazy about food. So play, freeze and wait the dog out, dog lets go, yayyy, immediately start playing again. etc

thanks guys!! I now see where I went astray........
Will start from the beginning with my "new approach". Will keep you updated.

Don't feel left out though about the tugging thing. Merlin doesn't really like to tug either. His favorite and you might try with Odin too, is the minute he does what I want him to I start "throwing a party" I hug him and love him and talk real excitedly to him. He loves it. He will do anything for a hug

Sugar doesn't tug either 'casue I taught her not to as I could not trust the kids to tug properly with her, so it was a rule in the house - no tug. Now if I try, she really doesn't play.

I was also suggest using a different word from out if you have been using that word and not getting the success you want. Then when he is learning what you want the word won't confuse him as to meaning of the word and what he thinks it may mean.

Sadie didnt tug when she was a puppy, as she got older she learned to love it. I think she wasnt strong enough and was a bit discouraged.

The other "OUT" thing I do is grab the scruff of her neck until she outs.

Its funny, I use one word for Thalie that means a ton of different things. Depending on the situation, "out" for Thalie means, drop it, or "get out ". "HEY" works alot too

Choochi wrote:

felixone123 wrote:Any other suggestions for making Odin do "out" when he has something/anything in his mouth that I want? His "out" is horrible and I have been working on this with him with a high value treat in one hand while taking the object out with the other. It is a really slow process, which is ok, but he won't let go unless there is that treat. He can be somewhat possessive of whatever is in his mouth. He does not growl, but will turn his back and let you know that it's his, which in my book is a no-no.

When does one wean him off treat so he "outs" without one?

His "leave it" is much better.

If he likes treats that is a great way to teach OUT but they key thing is that the treat has to be a reward and not a bribe, otherwise you will for ever be stuck like this. Have a treat in your hand but don't show it to him, keep that hand closed and by your side. Hold the toy with your other hand and just freeze and wait him out without saying a word. When he lets go, then throw a party and give him he treat and go right back to playing with the toy. Play for a few seconds, then freeze again and wait him out. Again, don't show him the treat but have one ready. The more you do this you will find that he will start to anticipate and will start to let go by himself as soon as you freeze, when he's doing that, you can introduce the verbal cue "out" as he is letting go. The reason for waiting to add the verbal cue is that you only want to name the behaviour once the behaviour is perfect. So if you name it too early, you may end up with a dog that thinks that out means take your time and eventually open my mouth, maybe regrip. If the dog is doing the behaviour perfectly when you name it, you eliminate all that confusion and don't have to reteach or fix things later. Do this enough times and then say "out" as you are just about to freeze, then throw a party and treat. This may take a few sessions but that's the basic progression.

You can do the same thing using the same toy as a reward if he isn't crazy about food. So play, freeze and wait the dog out, dog lets go, yayyy, immediately start playing again. etc

UPDATE:
As per instructions above, it worked!!! YAY!!!! Did not use any treats, just lots of praise. Had to wait it out, but he caught on. Still have a ways to go before we can actually say "out", but what a difference. So, hopefully before too long, Odin will have a great "out"!!!

YEAH!!!!!!

Wa Hoo!!

patience is a good thing

Go Odin

It's hit or miss with him, depending on his mood. Today, it took him forever to let go....argggggggg........
I was very patience and he was very stubborn, but I could not and would not let him win. This is good for me too, because I do not have alot of patience and this is making me have plenty.

They love to test you My Merlin will take a command so quickly its amazing. The only one that he is really giving me trouble on is down. He will "sit" if my 5 year old gives him the command, but down....thats another thing. Some days he will lay straight down and others he just looks at you like..."you have to be kidding me, I will not lay at your feet!"

Yayy!! That's great news! You'll find some times you'll fly through one part of training and get stuck on another. Or things go great one day and another it feels like you have a completely different dog in front of you. Patience and perseverance always win, you also need to be consistent although some times if a certain method just isn't working it's better to try a different approach, but you'll know when that happens because you will feel like you're hitting your head against a brick wall every time you're training.

Sugars Mom wrote:I was also suggest using a different word from out if you have been using that word and not getting the success you want. Then when he is learning what you want the word won't confuse him as to meaning of the word and what he thinks it may mean.

They can learn. One of my dogs progressed from "heel" meaning just walk beside me to it being the command for the full attentive Schutzhund type heeling. It worked just fine. We just changed criteria and trained it. But fowling up a word is the reason not to introduce the word to the dog in the first place until he is doing the behaviour well enough.

Go, Barbara!

When I first got Thor and he was learning to give me an object (as opposed to teasing or dropping it as if to say: you want it so bad, you get it.) A new friend called one night, husband tells her Thor and I are working something out....

When I called her back, she wanted to know what had happened. I told her. Being new friends, she didn't know anything about Thor (and of course, had never heard of Dutch shepherds, either). She proceeded to rip me apart: when she had working BCs, she didn't give a rat's a** about what they did or didn't do with toys or objects, etc.; the only thing that mattered was if they did their jobs; what did I think I was accomplishing?, etc...and blah-blah-blah she went.

When she finished, I deliberately paused for affectation, then very solemnly said: "Well...there's something you don't know...." She, too, paused, and then with equal solemnness replied, "What is it...?" And like a five-year-old, I answered: "He started it!"

When she stopped cracking up, we had a talk.

Your patience with Odin will pay off. Good for you!!