Will be prepared for a dog in 2 years! Questions?

[DogGirl_95]

As some of you may know I am 16, I turn 17 this month. When I turn 18 next year my parents are getting me my vehicle and I am going to get a job. For that year I will work hard to save all the money that is not for gas or taxes to cover the cost of a dog. Visit Trainers, breeder/owners, and read up on books/videos. I am going to visit Joey Leigh from Atlanta Working dog academy. When the end of the year/early next year comes I will pick my Breeder and put a deposit down on a puppy (I got two breeds picked out becasue of right now I have not been able to meet any dogs and make a rational decison on which breed is best for me)( If I get a DS it will be a KNPV male). Yes I know, I am going from owning two non-dominant dogs and cats to a puppy that will tear my clothes to shreds/give me punture wounds and possibly try to kill my cats. Which I will have to train out of as much as I can. I am a very active person and I came across the DS when searching for breeds that could keep up with me. So exercise will NOT be a problem, the dog is going to get a ton of it. There are many qualities that make the DS stand out from other breeds: Intelligence, Very Agile, and Willingness to please. I like the Dogo Argentino too (from original standards, so the dog is lighter built) but again this breed has HIGH prey drives and I will really have to train the dog to leave my cats alone, Dog agression runs in some lines and since I have a old dog that is not going to be tolerated, Hip Dysplasia is VERY bad in this breed and the only breeders who check hips are the ones who go by the new standards whose Dogos are 120 lbs (WAY too big)!!! Yet I heard from somewhere, could be total crap, that only 20-40% of genes will determine if the Dog will have Hip dys. and that the rest is careful exercising and a proper diet while the dog develops. Yet whenever talking about people you always hear genetics is the main thing that determines if you will develop certain diseases. From what I can tell both of these breeds would be great for me, my opinion may change when I meet them in person. I would have to do "custom" work with a Dogo if I did protection with one so the decoy and trainer need to be really good, with a DS I could go to any good trainer. BUT I may not get a personal protection Dogo becasue it may just be too complicated, and I will hunt him instead (then that may cause problems with my cats, UGH).

I already have three good DS kennels picked out that I would will to drive/fly to when getting the puppy. Keep in mind I like large dogs (85-100 lbs). I am doubting I would be able to get a DS ONLY because these kennels clearly say that the sires and dams are for very experienced handlers. I do not know If they would think I was ready for one of their puppies in 2 years even after all my preperation.
This video is what I would absoloutely LOVEEE to do with my dog ALL DAY. The Dogo does not want to please as much as a DS does so training for this work will be more diffucult:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAoZ-4U1 ... plpp_video

Kennels:
This kennel is in the same city my other family lives in and I would be able to visit them soon.
http://www.ewdk9.com/index.html

http://www.workingdutchies.com/

They live close enough for a quick flight.
http://www.kolemountainkennels.com/

I am going to contact these breeders either before or after I get "my training" done and see if they think I would qualify for one of their puppies.

Here is a Dogo breeder that has a very good Male (Gringo del pantano).. That is the original standard build and what I would want my Dogo to look like. And here is the video of him too:

http://www.dogodelpantano.com/cane-dogo ... p?IDDogo=3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3yEWmYu ... plpp_video

Any good books or training methods that you would recommend for a DS would be good. So far I have Really Reliable Recall and Ruff Love that I am going to read/watch. I am also going to be feeding my dog RAW so I am still learning how I will make the transition when I get my puppy, If you do this any tips would be great. And anyone who has a DS and has cats or other small critters PLEASE give me advice on what training you do and what you do with the dog when alone with cats (Do you crate him/her?).

[Drizlaru]

Aye, wow. Lots of hopes and dreams, glad your doing your homework. There is no substitute for being prepared. What you really need to do first and foremost is give yourself an honest evaluation of your abilities as a dog trainer, and what you can handle as a person. What are your personality traits? What kind of dog is going to mesh well with who you are? Do you have the ability and tenacity to deal with a DS of that calibur? How do you plan on training your new pup? Do you plan on competing? If so, competing in what?

There's alot more questions to answer after that, that you need to think about. I'm not trying to discourage you in any way from going ahead with what you want, on the contrary, I would rather you be fully prepared for the time, patience, and willpower needed to be successful. Think long and hard about who you are, and what kind of "personality" would mesh well with you in the dog you want. I've seen people male and female get dogs (and even pups) way out of their league, and the dog ends up with the short end of the stick. Alot of people aren't prepared for a high drive dog, it's good that your prepared to exercise him on a daily basis, but that's only half the battle. Any DS owner can tell you all about how smart they are, they require mental exercise, or else they get bored and will find their own "entertainment". Which may or may not involve all manner of destructive and mischievous behavior that is "over the top" for most people.

I own a male DS pup that is high drive. He is the tazmanian devil reincarnated with brindle coloring. Everything in God's creation he has the put in his mouth, and his ability to figure out how to get things in his mouth is uncanny,(funny to watch him run around with a football in his mouth the same size as him practically). It's just a warning as to what you could be getting yourself into.

I would start doing alot of research over on http://leerburg.com/, the webboard is full of valuable information on every subject. The videos are very well done, and also give alot of information.
I would spend the next two years soaking up all the info you can, and when you feel comfortable with training, go volunteer at a local shelter and help them train their dogs. Practical experience is where your going to do the real learning, and you may be able to find some GSD's , Belgian Mals, or even DS's to work with. I wish you the best of luck.

[leih merigian]

Dog Girl,

Paragraphs are your friend!

As active as you say you are, think about the possibility of being in some remote location, and your dog becomes seriously injured. Can you carry the dog out? The Dogo may not be a good choice for that reason alone.

There are a lot of threads here that discuss dealing with cats and training pups and dogs about them...do a site search for cats, and they'll come up for you.

Before I got my first working lines dog, I did about two years of very serious research. I thought I had an idea of what it meant to get a high drive, working lines dog. Ha ha ha. I literally couldn't eat anything solid for 4 days, and I'm the kind of person who eats under stress . You seem to be talking about the most serious of the DS lines. As you meet these dogs over time, keep in mind that it's one thing to meet a dog that's been trained and is showing it's chops when relatively mature, versus you bring your pup home and suddenly you are dealing with a little being that literally does not know anything, with whom you have zero communication, and who is a whirling landshark.

I am also wondering about your education. Are you planning on going to college, or are you done after completing high school? Do you really think you have a solid idea of what's involved in raising a serious DS pup for that critical first year?

I think it's great that you're doing all this research. Like Bob, I recommend ruthless self-honesty as you continue your quest .

[DogGirl_95]

Yes I am graduating in 2014, and I do online High School so I am extremely flexible even with a Job (probably part-time). I would like to get a job at the animal shelter, I would train the dogs and exercise them giving me more experience and increasing the dogs chances of being adopted. I am not going to college. As far as what dog would mesh well with me I know I would like a affectionate dog (sits on your lap, follows you), a dog that has enough energy to do anything anytime but will calmly sleep the entire night through, and a dog that can handle longer than 15 minute training sessions (Gunner can't). I really wish I could tell you mroe but I have never met a working dog before. I am going of my instint, videos, and other owners. I am going to visit some this summer though, Atlanta Working dog club. I know the training I have done with Gunner is easy to me, he is rather stubborn and doesn't pay attention after about 15 minutes. I am the one who wants to train longer and more often. I want to do French Ring and possibly Dock Diving plus a bajillion other activities. I will compete him if he is good and the competitions are not too far away. Now if he gets pro that is a whole nother thing. I plan on training my pup another language, or whatever is compatiable with French Ring. I have been given three great links on how to evaluate the puppies and pick a good working dog out, one of them is Leerburg. I think another is how to socialize the puppy when he is yours. I will take that with me and get help with he Breeder on what puppy would be good for me.

I know you guys are not trying to discourage me and only want a good owner getting a DS so he won't end up in Rescue and need some serious training because I couldn't handle him. I know these dogs require mental AND physical exercise EVERYDAY. That is quite intimidating coming from a dog who does not like to exercise and can't do too much and who can't be trained for long periods of time. But I go to bed thinking about being outside training a dog to in FR and Bike-Joring. Who knows a DS might be too much spunk for me and a little more laid back Dogo might just be perfect for me. I know heavy dogs will be a problem if they ever get injured, especially because I do not weigh much bigger than a 90 lb dog. But I cannot put in words how much of a prepper I am. I always bring at least an extra water bottle for me and Gunner when going for a bike ride, Knife (you never know), Extra kibble and food, and would put an entire Medical kit if in my bad also If I had one. I am going to get a book or go to a class on dogs CPR and other emergency medical situations that could save his life. I will still have a tough time moving the dog but at least he won't be in as much of a rush to get back if I know my medical stuff. I am looking into getting a boar vest if I get a Dogo and those things are tough. I would see about investing a Kevlar vest too. I would put it on the dog before we go outside, I'm moving to Idaho after about 2 years here with the dog and the wolves there are 290 lbs!!!

I will look for those threads on cats. Thanks for the info and telling me to REALLY think about what I need want. Because the DS might not be for me I already have other easier breeds and breeders picked out. In all honesty I think a DS would be a good dog for me!

[Raven]

Life happens when you are busy making plans.

It's one thing for seasoned adults when this happens, it's entirely different when it happens to those just beginning. And then especially to (perhaps) be in another state without any known support. A high-powered animal is a big risk given these parameters and more unknowns; the fall-out of best laid plans often falls to the animal the hardest.

KNPV?

[leih merigian]

You know, Dog Girl, a lot of herding breed dogs would probably be a good fit for you. They are in general very intelligent, were bred to work with humans and are tractable, have strong pack drives, tend to be affectionate with their person (and generally family), and herding dogs from working lines will have the energy to keep up with you and have traveling in their genes (for herding ).

Perhaps that will end up being a DS, perhaps not.

I really hope you can find some way to become involved with either a FR club, or even SchH, even without your own dog (they love people who come regularly to help ), and just soak up everything you can about the different breeds. There are always people in those clubs who really know their stuff (at least, ideally ), and if you are sincere in wanting to learn and helping out to earn your way there, they will be happy to teach you. You will see a range of dogs...the ones who can barely do the work, the ones who do well, and the ones that really excell. Just get as much exposure as you can.

I think working in shelters is a great thing, in general, tho most of the dogs you'll deal with there will probably remind you of your own current dog, rather than a high-drive, high-energy working lines dog. You can still get experience and develop some training chops, but it won't much prepare you for a DS type dog.

So, what is your name, if you don't mind my asking?

[Christie M]

If you're going to be in Atlanta, I am only about 3 hours away. You can visit here and see everything from competition and police dogs, to rescues looking for a good home. Just keep your mind open and see what's out there. I used to have idealistic views of the dog I wanted. Yet my most fun and versatile dog was only 45 pounds. She is bitework (POCKET ROCKET), agility, flyball, herding.......perfect!

[DogGirl_95]

Life happens when you are busy making plans.

It's one thing for seasoned adults when this happens, it's entirely different when it happens to those just beginning. And then especially to (perhaps) be in another state without any known support. A high-powered animal is a big risk given these parameters and more unknowns; the fall-out of best laid plans often falls to the animal the hardest.

KNPV?

Yes I know. It is better to get my puppy while with my parents so that I will have less things to worry about when working with the puppy during its most crtitical preiod. Here training is close, the puppy will learn to behave around cats/dog and get more exposure to kids here, there will always be someone home. When the puppy needs to be let out when still being trained someone will be here to let it use the restroom and feed it if I am gone a the moment. If I waited until I had my own house that would be years down the road and I would have to pay for people to come over to my house to let tehe puppy out if I was at work, and my job did not allow my dog to come.

[Christie M]

Yes I know. It is better to get my puppy while with my parents so that I will have less things to worry about when working with the puppy during its most crtitical preiod. Here training is close, the puppy will learn to behave around cats/dog and get more exposure to kids here, there will always be someone home. When the puppy needs to be let out when still being trained someone will be here to let it use the restroom and feed it if I am gone a the moment. If I waited until I had my own house that would be years down the road and I would have to pay for people to come over to my house to let tehe puppy out if I was at work, and my job did not allow my dog to come.

Hey there,
I am sure this has been mentioned before, but PLEASE visit the User Control Panal (upper left of each page) and create a signature with your actual name. We don't need to be calling you "Dog Girl" all of the time

[DogGirl_95]

You know, Dog Girl, a lot of herding breed dogs would probably be a good fit for you. They are in general very intelligent, were bred to work with humans and are tractable, have strong pack drives, tend to be affectionate with their person (and generally family), and herding dogs from working lines will have the energy to keep up with you and have traveling in their genes (for herding ).

Perhaps that will end up being a DS, perhaps not.

I really hope you can find some way to become involved with either a FR club, or even SchH, even without your own dog (they love people who come regularly to help ), and just soak up everything you can about the different breeds. There are always people in those clubs who really know their stuff (at least, ideally ), and if you are sincere in wanting to learn and helping out to earn your way there, they will be happy to teach you. You will see a range of dogs...the ones who can barely do the work, the ones who do well, and the ones that really excell. Just get as much exposure as you can.

I think working in shelters is a great thing, in general, tho most of the dogs you'll deal with there will probably remind you of your own current dog, rather than a high-drive, high-energy working lines dog. You can still get experience and develop some training chops, but it won't much prepare you for a DS type dog.

So, what is your name, if you don't mind my asking?

I think herding breeds is the best group of all around dogs there is . I heard of and seen these dogs do anything, plus these dogs have intelligence that other breeds just don't have *cough* *cough* Dogo Argentino lol. My other favortie hearding breeds are a Czech GSD, Malinois, and Beauceron. Gsd is great buttt from having a slanted back its hocks are weak and that means it will not be a very strong ski-jor dog.Beauceron good but I like the DS better, same thing with Malinois. I find it even harder to find large Mals even though they are more popular and I prefer the brindle coat.

I am going to join the club I talked about whenever I get my vehicle so that I can visit all the time, get exposed, and learn things. Hopefully if my breeder had any doubt I could get my trainer to call and talk abotu how determined/hardworking determined I am. I know working in Shelters will not get me exposed to working dogs but I will get to get used to working with other dogs and training them. Plus any job without dogs involved with just be a total bore Lol.


My name is Caitlin and I will put a signature with my name on it.

[Christie M]

My name is Caitlin and I will put a signature with my name on it.

Thanks Caitlin!!!

[DogGirl_95]

My name is Caitlin and I will put a signature with my name on it.

Thanks Caitlin!!!

Your welcome, and I would love to visit and see some working dogs. There is another owner of DS's and a breeder the same distance from me and my father said that is too far away. Until next year when I get my own vehicle I will not be able to convince my parents to take me far. I am going to force my parents to get exposed and learn about working dogs too at Atlanta Working dog Academy becasue me and the puppy will be living at their house for 2 years before I should be able to leave. I will be training using Leerburg and I will start Gunner on that soon (and my Me/parents too Lol) . If my parents don't want to buy a crate then I will just wait to crate trian him once I get my job and can buy it with my own money.

[Lauren]

If you're going to be in Atlanta, I am only about 3 hours away. You can visit here and see everything from competition and police dogs, to rescues looking for a good home. Just keep your mind open and see what's out there. I used to have idealistic views of the dog I wanted. Yet my most fun and versatile dog was only 45 pounds. She is bitework (POCKET ROCKET), agility, flyball, herding.......perfect!

OOOh I want to come! I would love to see your kennels and meet your dogs!

[DogGirl_95]

Hey everyone thanks for taking your time replying but unfortunately I will not be able to have a DS as my new puppy in about 2-3 years. The cost to train FR is simply too much. I will be getting a Dogo Argentino instead. I might decide to take a trip to see a DS one day but for right now I have to focus on the breed I can afford. I will still come on here and reply to messages but that is about it, If you ever pass by Stockbridge,GA or close by send me a PM!

[Choochi]

I'm a little confused by such drastic change in direction. Training costs aside, I would imagine that the cost of owning a dogo would be higher assuming they would be bigger then a Dutchie. ??
Are you planning to not train the Dogo? It's not just FR that's expensive, any dog training where travel is involved (pretty much all dog sports) will be similar.

[Raven]

I have to second Choochi.

I applaud the research involved--others should invest that time! Yet it is only research, and one needs use such gathered paper research and apply that practically...and practicing crawling before they walk.

It's wonderful that you, Caitlin, are so invested with future prospects. Start building your skills with what you have at home (e.g., you say Gunner can't work more than 15-minutes--use it; some of the best sessions are short--and even necessary). You may have what it takes to be the best big-dog, high-prey dog trainer in the world, but that comes with working up to it by dealing with a range of dogs, even little foo-foo ones (who can be terrors!).

You have a wealth of training opportunities in your own backyard. Start there. It might very well shape your future. And not what you now think it will or should be.

[CaroleBoaz]

You don't have to train in FR. And you will have to train your Dogo, so a DS is still cheaper. Unless there's something about Dogo's that you don't need to train or work with them, but I doubt it. I know plenty of people with DS who have them as pets and don't do anything other than the obedience that all dogs need. Maybe you just want a bigger dog?

[DogGirl_95]

I'm a little confused by such drastic change in direction. Training costs aside, I would imagine that the cost of owning a dogo would be higher assuming they would be bigger then a Dutchie. ??
Are you planning to not train the Dogo? It's not just FR that's expensive, any dog training where travel is involved (pretty much all dog sports) will be similar.

I would take a KNPV DS over a Dogo in a split second, but I can't afford the FR training. I doubt I will ever like medium sized FCI DS's enough to purchase one, plus I only buy from working breeders so that doesn't help. The Dogo doesn't require any expensive training, although you could, so that is the reason I choose one. All his training will be done by yours truly. He will get trained Obedience by Leerburg Videos sent to my home. Even though he will not go to classes or be in a club he will know plenty of tricks and have plenty of activities to do at home and around town.

The creater of the DS, Antonio Martinez, made the Orignal breed standards. All dogs from the original breed standards are lighter weight and 9 times out of ten worked. I want an athletic dog so It only makes ssense for me to buy a pup from a breeder who uses the original standard. SO my Dogo will not be 120 lbs like these Dogo's you are seeing to day, He will be 42-45 kgs (90-99 lbs) Max. Gunner is in the middle of that weight so I can just go off of him to see how much everything would cost. My Dogo will not get his ears cropped or neutered. For his first year while getting all his sets of shots and everything else it will cost $200. After that every year it will only cost me $100, that is what it costs at out vet. His food will cost me $200 a month if I feed RAW and if I feed a very good quality kibble it will be much less. That is $2,500 every year (on RAW). I will be making $5,600 every year after taxes. So the other half goes toward gas and savings.

[DogGirl_95]

I have to second Choochi.

I applaud the research involved--others should invest that time! Yet it is only research, and one needs use such gathered paper research and apply that practically...and practicing crawling before they walk.

It's wonderful that you, Caitlin, are so invested with future prospects. Start building your skills with what you have at home (e.g., you say Gunner can't work more than 15-minutes--use it; some of the best sessions are short--and even necessary). You may have what it takes to be the best big-dog, high-prey dog trainer in the world, but that comes with working up to it by dealing with a range of dogs, even little foo-foo ones (who can be terrors!).

You have a wealth of training opportunities in your own backyard. Start there. It might very well shape your future. And not what you now think it will or should be.

Thank You. I think a Dogo would put some great experience under my belt. I am getting a camera this 18th and and going to make videos of the good, and bad, that I have taught Gunner and lots of other things. I will show you the mistakes I make and how his drives and stuff are. For his age, weight, and crappy genes ( we adopted him from a person who purchased him from a BYB) Gunner kicks butt. But not enough spunk for me, I am sure getting my "worths" out of him though LOL. If he was 3 years old right now and in his prime he would be perfect. I like high strung, smart, athletic dogs. I know I need to refresh a couple of new tricks with him that he will forget soon. I know plenty of little dogs that suffer from Small Dog Syndrome and they sure are a Terror lol. It's funny becasue the owner doesn't think it matters because the dog is so little it cannot do any harm.

[leih merigian]

I sure hope your vet assessment is right.

In my humble experience, many things can go wrong, especially with an active, athletic dog, and you end up with unexpected vet expenses. A couple of those in a year could easily eat up the rest of your stated annual income .