Dutch Shepherd Forum

Koda is almost a year old now, he's not neutered, I decided to keep his balls. I might breed him when he gets older but I'm not sure yet(not sure what my life will bring!). Great dog, little scared of bigger dogs(gets aggressive) but loves to play with the smaller - mid size dogs. I've notice a change, he doesn't listen to me and it's annoying me. I saw the other day when I was at the school a man was running and he thought it would be cool to run by him. After I told him "Come!". Inside the house he listens all the time, outside getting a little of the "I can do what I want!"

I notice that he is getting more territorial.. outside he use to pee on command in the spot I wanted him too. One day I had him on leash (don't trust him because he runs off now) I stood there for 35 minutes and he finally went because he was frustrated. He wants to mark his territory and I don't want that at all. He needs to pewp in once spot so I can tell visitors not to walk through there. Any thoughts? I was thinking today that I would walk him buy the school. He knows exactly where the school is and I keep him on my side while walking on the leash. He fights it now because he wants to be in front of me and just chokes himself. I think it might be time for a choke collar because it's just getting hard to hold him. Anyways he gets wicked excited and I have to calm him. I might just walk by and he would probably freak out.

I've tried a lot of things with him to help. I stopped and he tried to pull just to get to the school. Eventually he gives up and goes to my side like he use to. Once we start walking he goes right back into it and I stop. He never use to do this and it might just be he's getting more sexual now. I know I need to lay hard into him because if I don't fix this.. he might start using it to his advantages. Anyone have any pointers? I'm going to get a choke collar today, I just feel like the corrections I give aren't enough now.

He's young and has a lot to learn.. today he learned what 81 degrees feels like.

What collar do you have on him now? Have you tried a prong collar? I dont do the male dog thing so I dont know anything about that. I just know from Sadie but she did her teenage stuff at about 8 months and I really got on her hard for a week and she learned that the teenage stuff dosnt work. When I take them for walks in town I have prongs on both of them, thalie dosnt need it but im not playing the two against one game. I always keep them in a heel in town. My thoughts are you need to really lay into him hard.

I second the prong, Odin is on one during our walks. He also wears his leather collar, so I can switch the leash to that if we get to a park and want to play ball. He's a lot faster than me, so if we're running after a ball, I don't want to yank him on a prong when he beats me during a game. If you decide to go for the prong, make sure it fits right and is only on for training/working. I hate seeing the neighbors dog, left alone in the backyard with a prong on.

It's a training aid, not a permanent crutch, so it can help fix certain issues, but flat collar work needs to be done as well if you want to completely get rid of the behavior. Of course it can also be used for cautious reasons as well such as walking to dogs like Lisa mentioned. I normally practice flat collar work in our back fenced in yard, but we share it, so I keep the prong on when the upstairs neighbors are doing laundry in the basement, because he loses focus if they're walking through the yard.

Definitely be consistent now. Odin is estimated at 1 year and 10 months, and I wish I had gotten him a little sooner. There are some minor heeling issues that he's gotten away with before that I have to take out of him now and it's annoying, but we're getting there. Although Dutch Shepherds pick up new tricks and training quickly, they also pick up bad training with the same speed.

Alot of good advise there. Get rid of the choke collar, you don't need it. Get a nice stainless steel prong collar, and it will last a long time. Also on that same subject, you will find that using a prong collar with small prongs instead of large prongs gives more of a correction because of the more prongs in contact with your dogs skin. You can always get a small one and add prongs to it, make sure it fits PROPERLY to get the best results.

Koda is in the development phase where testing authority , boundries, and pack rules is going to be the norm for a short time. Be fair, be consistent, and don't allow him to get away with anything. Allow him an inch and he will take the mile.

Good luck.

Although I agree that you want to set boundaries now and make sure you are not allowing behaviors to advance, I am not in agreement that you should just put a prong collar on your dog and start correcting. I think you need to get with someone who can watch you and your dog together and help coach you from there.

1 - I believe it is inherently unfair to give corrections to a dog if you have not first taught them the behavior in every context first. I know your dog was consistently performing behaviors previously, but without seeing you guys in action, its impossible to know if the disobedience comes from stubbornness or confusion.

2 - There are a great many dogs who take a correction personally, and a few lines of DS that will quickly come up the leash fast. Especially if those corrections are unfair - inconsistent, too hard given the circumstances, etc. Also, if the dog is in drive and you correct (and the dog doesn't know how to receive and respond to that correction) then that aggression is likely going to get redirected on the closest thing - you. Are you personally prepared with how to handle it if your boy decides to bite the crap out of you??

Keep in mind, a prong collar can offer a good correction. It can also be a pain stimulus that enhances aggression.

As I said, I would find a balanced trainer (not an old school, militaristic type) who can help you through this tough time. I would do some daily formal obedience - motivationally and increasing expectations as you go. I would make sure you are ALWAYS setting your dog up for success right now. Have him on a long line or leash at all times so he can't blow you off. And I would make sure your dog knows that you control all resources and things are only provided to him when he offers appropriate behaviors. For instance, its not enough for me for my dog to sit before going through a door. They need to make and maintain eye contact until released - they don't get to sit and load on the reward.

All in all, be careful. Don't put emotion into anything. Don't just start correcting because you are mad. How you handle the "teenage" time dictates much of your long term relationship.

i took Christies earlier advice and got a head halter for Xena (9months now). I got the HOLT brand size 2 and it works GREAT!

It took 3 kitchen sessions put it on (treat, treat, treat,) take it off etc. Then I had to treat on the first couple of walks with it on.

She is a different dog! No pulling, much less sniffing about, and calmer. Now I just carry it in my pocket and if she forgets her manners I show it to her. That is usually enough, but if not I put it on and WaLA! instant controlled dog!

I do use the prong collar for herding. But honestly, if I have to correct her with it it makes her angry and more frustrated and likely to nip at my leg.

I bought a choke collar, I put it on him and he was a totally different animal. Instantly became submissive and went to that sad look. Took him for a walk that night and he did awesome, he wasn't scared of the choke collar choking him but more scared of the metal on metal sound. No PULLING at all that night. The next day he didn't want anything to do with the collar. In fact he ran around the house and no longer wanted to go for a walk outside. I forced the collar on him and made him sit for about five minutes. I started to walk towards the door and he was pulling backwards, managed to get the choke collar off but forgot that I already clipped him into his second collar. At full blast speed he had major whip lash and yelped then sat down.

The walking has been going really well, in fact he doesn't pull at all and try to force himself off the leash. A quick snap and he knows. Inside the house he's gone mad though, I'm an athletic male and I'm rather quick. The other day I was training him (sit, stand, down, sit, come, back, shake, heel) and he manage to do all of that at random(steak on table ). Took him for a walk out in the woods, came back and I was eating dinner. Told him numerous times to sit, lay down and he refused. Refused so much that when I got up he took off running around the house. He ran by me and then I reach over the couch. Grabbed him by his neck fur and he yelp. He ran around the couch and layed down next to me. I hate doing it but when commands are not taken you have to use some type of force. Woke up this morning and he was looking for loving affection.. he knows and he's testing like crazy right now. After work I'm going to do some command work with him and start laying it to him hard.

Like flies on poop? haha, I'll look into that prong collar if it gets to whacked. It was about 8$ at tractor supply.

Choke chains teach through affixation, which is why everyone so far has recommended against them.

I got Sugar a martingale collar, and that worked for her, I think the sound of the chain too. At the tightest setting it fits around the neck snug but not choking, then it hangs looser when its relaxed.

Sound like it's time to put the lead back on full time in the house. If he learns to avoid you by running the other way and gets away with it, you're in trouble. You chasing him around will soon be a game--self rewarding behavior--and even worse if there is a correction every time you catch him. Go back to the basics until he's dependable.

I had the same thing when Sadie was testing, one time she leaves and the leash goes right back on and stays on for a while. For being short I have a long reach and luckily Sadie was never fast enough and I would grab her scruff, she HATES that so she downs quick.

Dutchringgirl wrote:I had the same thing when Sadie was testing, one time she leaves and the leash goes right back on and stays on for a while. For being short I have a long reach and luckily Sadie was never fast enough and I would grab her scruff, she HATES that so she downs quick.

Sounds like Koda! Except when I grab him he screams and will put on a show like he was hurt. After it's all said and done he's right near me and that is the end of it. He's smart and at times he gets the best of me. Nothing like shooting yourself in the foot right?

Thanks for the advice, Now time to do!

Oh Sadie screams like a stuck pig!!!! Yep, get doing

alspyce wrote:...and even worse if there is a correction every time you catch him. Go back to the basics until he's dependable.

Chasing him will either become a game, or elicit fear of being caught. Correcting him to the point of causing him to scream is probably extreme - he's not "acting hurt," it does hurt.

I'm not a bunny hugger, motivation only person. I will hand my dog their a$$ if they deserve it. But they have to deserve it. I always find its much more effective (and fair) to work smarter, not harsher.