Dutch Shepherd Forum

We are staring to go to doggy school tomorrow, but there is a slight problem. School works with positive reinforcement methods (with food, but no clicker), wich i like, but Olaf wont work for food. He is not really interested in food, or toys.
Any advice?

I went to a seminar yesterday and the "teacher" said it can be very hard to work with those kind of dogs, but because he was in the shelter and in the woods, i could try to wait and see if he gets to like food or toys.
She also said if there is a strong connection between dog and guide, praise and petting itself can be used as reward, but it doesnt give as good results as food (for dogs who like food, obviously), and that she recomends waiting. I cant wait, i already payed the school, and the next one is in september.

Any thoughts?

I think i will have to use food (dehidrated hot dogs and bacon) + praise. i hope that works

I dont remember, how old is Olaf? When Sadie was a pup she wasnt interested in food or toy rewards either, but I used a lot of praise with her. She did eventually develop food and toy drive.

He is around 1,5years old now.

At first he didn`t want to play at all, but as time passed buy he learned to play with toys, sticks and later he learned that chasing balls is fun, but all that is nowhere near "ill do anything for that ball"

also, one interesting thing:

when i saw him (twice) in the shelter he was much more interested in treats than he is now. He ate kibble there, wich was always in his ball. Now, at home, i feed him raw meat, barf and cooked food twice a day, and give him 1-2 day a kong filled with kibble. Now.. is there a possibility (since he is pretty submisive to me and members of family) that he wont work for treats because he thinks "the food is boss`es and its her/his good will if she/he will give it to me, its not up to me to ask for food".

Im sorry for the clumsy english

Update

On the first class of doggy school we learned that Olie is not food driven becuse his regular food is of a more value than treats! I feed him raw meat and barf, and ofc he is not going to be interested in hot dogs

So i tried luring him into sit and lay down with his dinner (beef heart pieces) and ofc it worked!!

Bingo!

lol, so now you have to walk around with beef heart pieces in your pocket!! Mmmmmm!

yeah lol! and stinky barf! Thats practic! rofl

Spoiled dog is spoiled.

You're going to have to experiment with other treats...try peanut butter (I've yet to meet a dog that doesn't love it), bacon, terryaki chicken, stuff like that. Also, hungry dogs tend to be a lot more interested in treats, so don't feed him right before going to class (or give him a half-ration), or before you do training at home. (And, you're right on to use his food as reinforcement...)

Don't feed him his usual meals, plus snacks, plus kongs, and then expect him to work for treats. Cut out the snacks and kongs and use his meals as the training food. Done. And a treat is not a treat if it has no value, value being defined by the dog not what some one printed on the package. Experiment with different things and you might be able to find some thing that's portable and makes an easy training treat.

Have you tried Rollover? It comes packaged like a large sausage, you can chop it up into small training bits. Mot dogs I know go gaga for it, even ones on raw.

Thank you for input, guys.

I practiced sit, lay down, and doors with barf today, and it went perfect.

Atm Im very happy that I found something that he is interested in, but later on I will try something more portable (im thinking cooked beef or dehidrated barf) To be honest, I dont think I will try retail dog treats, because,đ they are pretty expensive when you count per kilo, and sometimes people give him treats in the park and he wasnt very excited about any of them.

Leih, I feed him twice a day: early i the morning and in the evening, and our classes (and practices at home) are in the afternoon/early evening. So around 9-12 hrs after his last meal. I gace him peanut butter obce with a kong and he ate it. Any ideas how to "apply" it as a training treat? Im thinking frozen pieces?

Choochi, thank for advice, I will cut out kongs and chewing snacks. Also, Im afraid we dont have Rollover here. Never heard of it. :/

Where are you? Maybe you can order from them online?

http://www.rolloverpetfood.com/Pet%20Ca ... 202009.pdf

The green one is the best (lamb) for training as it's the perfect consistency, still soft but not too soft and crumbly that it stays the best in little cubes after you chop it up. I tried the other ones and found they are too crumbly.


RE penut butter you can stuff some into a kong or some other holding device (a small jar that fits into your palm easily) and offer it for licks then take it away after 2-3 licks.

My dogs are on raw and do you know what they work for? Kibble!

It is silly, but to them 1-2 pieces of good quality kibble is a fine treat. Now if I am teaching something new or uninteresting to the dog, I have to cook some chicken breast and cut it up...

And like everyone has said, keeping him a little hungry before hand is a good idea. It is like getting a pay check when you are REALLY needing it instead of getting one while your bank account is still full. Same pay, but a different value!

Good luck and have fun! My girl has just recently developed a toy drive. It is nice!

Barbara, Choochi gave you a good idea about using the peanut butter; I'd just have put some in a baggie and swiped my finger in it and given it that way . The toy idea is better, something to hold the PB and offer it for licks.

RE dehydrated treats for training; I like using soft stuff they can just swallow. Anything they have to chew detracts from their "getting" it.

Does he like cheese? Some real Cheddar, Gouda or Leerdamer? Easy to cut into small pieces and still cheaper by the pound than most top of the line dog treats. And has some nutritional value too (Calcium).

While I am typing this Marco and I "share"some Norwegian Goat cheese that is on sale at Whole Foods.

Thanks guys!
I will try PB, cheese and kibble today!
I should try ham and salami since he is really interseted in my sandwiches

My guys love Orijen fish formula as treats.

Tryed edam cheese and it woks! (im not sure about salt levels, though)

Also, mine will do almost anything for a little squirt of that processed cheese in a can . Ok, I admit, I like it, but dont eat it often unless I am camping out. But that is how I found out the dogs are crazy for it!

Just a little squirt on you finger works!

Lauren wrote:Also, mine will do almost anything for a little squirt of that processed cheese in a can . Ok, I admit, I like it, but dont eat it often unless I am camping out. But that is how I found out the dogs are crazy for it!

Just a little squirt on you finger works!

Ill have to try that, Sadie will work for treats if its a low intensity trick, like touch, but when we are out and there is a ton of stuff to look at her focus isnt very good and when she does take the treat she just drops it because her attention is already on something else.

Dutchringgirl wrote:

Lauren wrote:Also, mine will do almost anything for a little squirt of that processed cheese in a can . Ok, I admit, I like it, but dont eat it often unless I am camping out. But that is how I found out the dogs are crazy for it!

Just a little squirt on you finger works!

Ill have to try that, Sadie will work for treats if its a low intensity trick, like touch, but when we are out and there is a ton of stuff to look at her focus isnt very good and when she does take the treat she just drops it because her attention is already on something else.

Olaf is much like Sadie! Everything outside is much more interesting (or reinforcing if you like) than food. Especially cats. Cats make him blind and def.

For the last 1-2 weeks I`ve been using cookied chicken stomachs and sometimes some cooked chicken or turky leftovers. I keep them in a bag with some kibble (so it all smells yummy) and give him kibble for easier tasks.
It works for now

So now, when the exam is coming close, and we might fail at some excersizes, I had to put Olaf on dry food, and use raw chicken stomachs as treats. It is slightly better, but still not perfect, he loses attention soon, so i use play and my attention for keeping him focused and more eager to work. (i wrote about it on other thread).

But I can say we are doing fine, and will probably pass the test but not with 10/10.