Food reward to 'socialize' dogs to people

[Black Mal]

I have been poking around the site all night while my puppy chews nyla bones to bits in front of me. I have a sharp 10 m puppy. I live and work in the Bay Area of California and he was basically raised in SF. As we all know, we certainly cannot rely on the person asking, if they even ask, “Can I pet your dog?” to know how to read dogs- even though ours have all of the physical characteristics to make it clear. My pup is fine with the people who have been around working dogs and know how to greet a dog. Now if a stranger approaches him (this is assuming they have come in so fast I haven’t been able to intervene on his behalf) while he is patiently sitting beside me or comes at him from above he reacts, first with the ears back and a slight retreat and shortly after a bark (haven’t had that happen in almost a month). If the person squats down, looks down and allows him to come to them he is much more comfortable and comes forward to be pet.
When he was 4 months I was recommended to try the treat thing. What happened was one time someone came up that I didn’t have a chance to hand a treat to, his nose went to the hand, no treat, the ears went back he backed up and barked with a loud snap. The person told me I had to work on that- I thought to myself, well when he is 1 yr old and reacting like that I will be sued- awesome. I thought, yeah that was an unfair variant on the game. And I am asking people to place their hands in his face so that is the first thing he checks in strangers, those amazing moving things, hands. He is sharp, he doesn’t love strangers to invade his space, the treat trumps the discomfort- but the good feeling from the past treats clearly didn’t override his sharp nature. So instead I started a neutralization plan with play. I played extensively with him everywhere and anywhere I would want to take him at all hours. Now when we go places he wonders if I’m going to pull out food, tug or a ball and that all depends on the distractions. There is also some correction involved as he gets older, but when he was 4 months he was just impulsive and dumb, he doesn’t know pack rules, just guidelines.
I am fine with the fact that he is sharp to people, even though I bring him to work everyday where there are tons of people that would love to interact with him. I am fine with the fact for him that is not a pleasant experience, so all I ask is that he be polite and to remain calm in new places. Obviously I try to control the environment he is in as much as possible to allow this, ie crate time if I’m not actively engaged with him.
Luckily he is great with animals. He just doesn’t like weird people that swear all dogs love them. My point is I reconsidered the handing treats to strangers game with some dogs, depending on why they may be reacting to strangers. With an emphasis on neutralization and work on greetings with people you trust and you could guide in how to greet your dog.

[FG167]

Sounds very, very similar with my dog, Madix. I did the treats thing all the time when I was in SAR - he hated it. He hated having multiple people come up to me and pay any attention to him. BUT he would take the treats - like you said treats>attitude. Then he seemed to have outgrown that. My trainer since I got him encouraged me to not let anyone "work" him or give him treats. No playing with other people and no more giving them permission to feed him. She said that at this age (about 4 months) he obviously does not enjoy people coming up and that it would be in "our" best interest to prevent him eating from anyone. UNLESS they were going to do something uncomfortable (vet) or someone that is staying at my house or something.

I've found that it works the very best if everyone ignores him and I place him in a down. Clearly telling him his job is to be quiet, calm and unobtrusive. His circle is fairly small, the person has to have come right up to him for him to respond, otherwise he ignores.

THEN I moved into an apartment - where, oddly enough, no one has any dog sense. Had numerous people 'pat' him on the head and he decided that he was not comfortable with that - justifiably I think because he's supposed to "protect" me and then watch someone he's never met whack him without warning on the head. My fault for sure. I do not allow anyone to pet him unless I know them and they're prepared to deal with a dog in a smart way. If someone slips through, I have been working on laying down RIGHT AWAY. Hopefully we'll keep working on this until he's more comfortable with it. My trainer said that the behavior is annoying but not aggression and that I just need to continue to remind him I'm in charge and he can trust me.

The longer we live in the building, the more he feels he "knows" the people and quickly adds them to his "ignore" list. Also, mostly younger people and I don't let drunks come ANYWHERE close to petting him.

If I have new people come over, he does the very best if I put him on his bed, or next to me and the visitor pays no attention whatsoever, then after a little bit he's fine. OR if I take him out with the visitor (staying the night or something) and allow them to play with him, he's into that.

We just started Schutzhund - I mean we've only been to 3 trainings. However, he allows our handler (we only currently have one) to work him in obedience and play and then he gets right into the game when he comes out with his sleeve on. This is not ideal but we've got right now.He MUCH prefers confident people over submissive - he's a little snot lol.

ETA: not sure if I got my point across. My trainer said that people/treats were not working as reinforcing to be good just to take the treat then be a jerk (sounds like your pup?), so instead his "reward" for downing quietly was for ME to give him treats and praise.

[vneerland]

Blackmal. If you don't mind, please create a signature for your posts. That way we can actually remember who is who beyond a screen name.
As for your above post. I am not too sure I understand what you are asking? If we think you should hand treats to all strangers, so your dog becomes friendly(ier)? If that is the question, then my answer would be: why? You did not get a friendly golden retriever, so if your dog is neutral to a neutral or friendly stranger (and you tell the strangers to keep their hands off of your dog) then that would suffice? No??

[Black Mal]

I just posted it because I was reading some posts about using food to 'socialize' DS to strangers and I though- eek potentially dangerous. I love my guy and all of his attitude, I got a DS because I wanted a dog that wanted to work for me not socialize with the universe- I think he likes training for training's sake more than I do!

I'm not sure how to make a signature-

Kat

Diablo- 10 m DS CGC
Weasley- 4 yr Beagle CGC

[leih merigian]

.

I'm not sure how to make a signature-

Open the User Control Panel, upper left corner, after you sign in. The menus are there and easy to follow...

I used treats initially with my puppy, as she was very shy with people. She got over that quickly, and as soon as she decided she'd like to meet everyone she encounters, no more treats from strangers. I don't want her expecting food from everyone, or anyone, for that matter.

Neutral to strangers would be just fine with me. I think she's going to be much warmer than that, tho

[k9katet]

I also give people food to feed my puppy, Letty. She still doesn't like strangers but she needs to learn that they are not bad/scary and might have good things for her. She's tugging well with people too. I'm fine with her being aloof but I expect her to be safe/not aggressive/not scared in public and to let people touch her if that happens as my dogs are out in public (well, my public) alot.

Vada tolerates strangers petting her and she only has eyes for me. I have no concerns that my dog will leave me to go see someone else. She just loves to work.

I think what you want is a personal choice and depends on your lifestyle.