Is a Dutch Shepherd appropriate for me?

[Stonewall]

Hi everyone. For years my family had a German Shepherd/Chow mix that we found abandoned when he was about a year old. He became a loyal companion, protector, and friend. He has passed away now, and we are looking for a breed. I came to know about Dutch Shepherds through word of mouth, and have been investigating them for several weeks, and continue to be impressed. They (as a whole) seem to possess amazingly good qualities.
Here is my situation: before getting a weaned pup (probably a male), I would greatly appreciate input from those who know best. We (wife, myself, 2 and 4 year old children) live in the country on a large wooded acreage with lots of room for a dog to stretch his legs, so to speak. I really have no desire to "work" the dog. In other words, no official police-type training. However, as I have trained many dogs, I will give him basic obedience training. He will run free once assimilated, and receive much attention and affection, and we expect a dog who will be 100 percent trustworthy with our children and who will guard our place and us with his life. He will be part of the family. I just want to make sure that the breed is not "bite-friendly", as a result of genes passed down from ancestors who were bite-trained.
I have no problem with a dog that bites someone actually attempting to harm my family or property, but I want to make sure that the breed is trustworthy with small children and adults who might be visiting. How does your dog greet a stranger? I expect barking, and even denial of close access to the door......but do not want a dog that is prone to bite first and ask questions later. Does yours quickly figure out who is welcome? Is yours mouthy (barking excessively for no good reason)?
I am very sorry for the lengthy post, but would appreciate your insight. Is a Black Dutch a good match for me?

[CaroleBoaz]

It's good that you will do some training. Herding dogs tend to be too smart for their own good, and need the basics.

As far as finding the right dog, it really depends on who you get it from. I have heard of some dogs being difficult to handle in both Dutch Shepherds and Malinois. My dog, OTOH, loves children and looks at everybody as a possible food dispenser. I think, more dogs fit this category.

A lot of people are disappointed when a dog is too friendly, however, you would be surprised at what your dog will do when needed to protect his family. Both my males have been tested at a ATTS Temperament Test, and both acted bravely when faced with a threat. And everybody lets me know when there's a visitor.

Since the breed isn't very common in the US, you might have to wait a while to find a dog that fits your needs, especially if you are only interested in a dark brindle short-hair. If you are interested in the long-hair or rough-hairs, you will easily find what you are looking for, but still may have to wait for a litter.

[felixone123]

We rescued our first ever Dutch 5 months ago from NADSR, male, approx 3-4 yrs old. I did not want a "true" working dog but a family dog. Since he was in foster and his temperment matched what I wanted we adopted him. His is very calm and friendly.

Odin is very sweet and affectionate. Naturally protective, loyal and very smart. Gets along well with people,our female mix hound and after only 5 months since coming to us, is now indifferent to our cats - whew - that took alot of training We have trained him in the basics and now starting to train more advanced stuff through a master trainer.

Long story short, you can find what you want - just really research the breeder. You will find great people with tons of experience on this forum and they know the really great and honest breeders. Some of them are breeders themselves!

[Dutchringgirl]

I think there are plenty of family friendly breeds that will do a great job of protecting your family and house. DS can be tough to handle, they are full of energy. I have a large yard for my girls to play all they want but I still must give them mental stimulation too. Its also hard to tell if they will be 100% with your children too. Thalie is like Carols dog, super sweet, everyone is a friend and my daughter has always been able to curl up with her and read a book, cuddle, smoosh , kiss, you name it. I even did alot of bite training with Thalie and she would never bite someone with out a suit on. My younger dog, is not 100% with the kids yet, when she is tired she will growl. She is getting better but its up to you how long you want to wait and for your young children to pull an ear when they are sleeping. The best thing is to really get to know a breeder and their dogs and make sure they really know what you are looking for.

[Christie M]

You have gotten some really great advice here, and I agree with everyone. There are lines of dogs that are sharper than others, so it all comes down to the individual dog.

A couple of things that I will add:
Training the basics is great - but when you feel like those are set, you will still need to/ want to come up with things to keep him mentally stimulated. Having tons of room to run is important, but DS are smart and need to keep their brain occupied as well. You don't necessarily have to "work" them, but it is best for them to have some daily learning of productive things.

Also, a DS puppy is going to be just like any other hyper, happy breed. I am not very worried about the dog turning on you or the kids. But I am worried about a puppy being mouthy, knocking into and over children....things like that.

[Dutchringgirl]

knocking into and over children....things like that.

Yes!! Sadie is a bull in a china shop, she comes running and kids go flying !

[Stonewall]

Great advice....thank you all. I am intrigued by this breed, and feel I can definitely provide ample physical and mental stimulation to satisfy the needs of a Dutch. I enjoy teaching commands and "tricks". I once had a exceptionally intelligent and eager to please Black Lab who could carry out 43 different commands at the time of his death......including climbing ladders and turning off light switches. Amazing animal.
I will be careful when selecting a breeder. I am assuming that a pup who has parents that are registered are OK? Of course, assuming that the parents also exhibited behaviors and traits that were desirous for a "family dog". I have actually seen advertised pups for registered black/brindle short hairs in the 4-5 month old range with all shots and papers in the 400-500 dollar range. Seem reasonable or sends up a red flag? Thanks again.

[leih merigian]

Hi there,

I think you should give a lot of thought to getting a slightly older pup from DS rescue. Puppies are a total crapshoot, regardless of how much research you do on the breeder and lines and everything else. And, a slightly older dog, maybe 18 months to a 3 or 4 year old, will be way past the puppy biting and mouthing, and the breed rescue folks will do an excellent job of matching you up with a dog that fits your family (one with very young children). Then, down the line, when your kids are older, if you've fallen in love with the breed, you can take on a puppy. These guys are incredibly challenging to raise from babyhood, and it would be quite a while before your little kids would be able to have any really significant interactions with a young pup.

You sound like someone who could give the right DS a nice home...it's great that you like to teach so many tricks and behaviors. S/he'll love that!

[GSDNanny]

Good advice here. I would have to agree with Leih. When I was in GSD rescue, potential adopters seemed to always want a pup "to raise their way" but in essence there are genetic traits that will surface upon adulthood no matter what environmental exposure a dog has. That is why I always told adopters that with an adult dog, "what you see is what you get." So you might give that some thought as well.

I received my DS as a 7-8 month old pup that had been through 4 homes (putting that lightly as they werent really homes) before she came to me. She had a bad experience with children then and now at nearly 7 yrs old, she still despises them. Zip would qualify as a DS not suitable for the majority of homes though (just search Zip here and you will see more).

Just do a ton of research because with young children as you have, it goes without saying there should be no tolerance for mistakes in choice of dog.

[alexis]

I'm definitely no expert on the breed (just have my one DS!), but I'd second the recommendation for a rescued adult DS. I adopted a 2 year old rescue, not knowing much about his background, and he's been a wonderful pet.

He went through a brief mouthy phase (a couple of weeks when we first got him) but it was easily corrected and he's been a very easy dog and a joy to have. He does, of course, have his issues (scared of lots of new things, doesn't love guests in the house) but the foster family should be able to warn you about any quirks so that you can choose a dog that will work with your family.

I'll add that adopting a puppy is no guarantee that a dog will be good with kids - my parents adopted an 11 week old standard poodle who had already developed a serious fear of small kids (he would stalk and try to hunt them if left unsupervised with them). Despite regular supervised exposure to well behaved kids, he never got over it.

[Drizlaru]

You should definitly try an older rescue like everyone is suggesting. But, if your dead set on getting a puppy. There's a few breeders around here that can point you in the right direction. I know Selena van Leeuwen has some really nice DS pups. *evil grin*

[vneerland]

I am very sorry for the lengthy post, but would appreciate your insight. Is a Black Dutch a good match for me?

I personally think that you might be smarter to select your dog on personality traits, not on coat color. Solid black does not happen in DS's. Dark brindle, almost black looking does, yes.

You should definitly try an older rescue like everyone is suggesting. But, if your dead set on getting a puppy. There's a few breeders around here that can point you in the right direction. I know Selena van Leeuwen has some really nice DS pups. *evil grin*

I bet Selena has pups, yes. And I bet that you are being sarcastic, but the OP might not recognize that. While I am sure that some pups from working lines can make great family companions, I am also sure that most pet homes are not equipped for the whirlwind that would enter the house along with the pitter patter.

I have personally placed a working line female DS pup with a Dr once, who now has a great help on his horse farm from a DS who guides the horses to the barn at feeding time. (as if they need help) It is enough to keep her feeling important and happy. So while not all (working) pups need to be worked, I do agree with the statement that they need mental exercise. And I also agree that you might want to look into rescue, since all of the dogs via NADSR come with an evaluation and a guarantee that you can return them if they are not a fit. Not all breeders offer the same.

[Stonewall]

I personally think that you might be smarter to select your dog on personality traits, not on coat color. Solid black does not happen in DS's. Dark brindle, almost black looking does, yes.

Thank you for the reply, and for catching my inadvertent error. I meant to type "Is a Dutch Shepherd a good match for me".......not Black Dutch. I have recently been researching the possibility of my family having Black Dutch ancestry, hence the confusion.

[Drizlaru]

You should definitly try an older rescue like everyone is suggesting. But, if your dead set on getting a puppy. There's a few breeders around here that can point you in the right direction. I know Selena van Leeuwen has some really nice DS pups. *evil grin*

I bet Selena has pups, yes. And I bet that you are being sarcastic, but the OP might not recognize that. While I am sure that some pups from working lines can make great family companions, I am also sure that most pet homes are not equipped for the whirlwind that would enter the house along with the pitter patter.

Sorry, yes I was being sarcastic. I doubt Selena would allow one of her pups to anyone unprepared, and unexperienced with that level of sheer terror with fur anyhow.

[MinaHerdershonden]

I found my dutchie at my local shelter, super sweet too smart dog 7 months old, with no training but had to have been socialized and had no fear of anything, we have been battling with mouthyness for a long time now ( shes 11 months now) shes great with girls who are 7 up, but my little brother who is 10 years old and she thinks she can walk all over him, she is not trustworthy with kids as young as yours, shes too rough, and doesnt know when to stop kissing them to death! Think of it this way, any puppy will be like having a WHOLE other baby in the house, having a dutch puppy is like having an adopted 4 year old with ADHD, they will need constant attention, in my opinion its better to wait till your kids are a bit more stable and you have the time and attention to if needed give it the 100% a dutch pup might need from you, my dog takes my attention all day everyday and shes handler hard she really only listens to me no matter how much my family works with her, i have to bike, walk or run her EVERYDAY not one good run once a week, and she is NOT trust worthy off leash, shes a huge lover, she cuddles, shes good with other dogs, shes protective but friendly with people, im sure if i stayed on her near little kids shed become fine with them, she just hasnt had alot of time with them, great dogs, but ALOTTTTTT of work, nothing like having a high energy lab my family has always had labs or mixes, if you ask for my 100% honesty i would tell you she is probably more like a good high energy pit bull then any other breed ive met, nothing like german shepherds, ive volunteered walking and training dogs at my shelter for a year now and ive met much easier pits then my dutch is LOL id trust a pit bull not to bite more then her haha

[vneerland]

Thank you for the reply, and for catching my inadvertent error. I meant to type "Is a Dutch Shepherd a good match for me".......not Black Dutch. I have recently been researching the possibility of my family having Black Dutch ancestry, hence the confusion.

Ah-ha! So you want your dog to match your own possible roots. Just kidding.
Glad that you don't select the dog to match your couch.

Sorry, yes I was being sarcastic. I doubt Selena would allow one of her pups to anyone unprepared, and unexperienced with that level of sheer terror with fur anyhow.

You never know. She will sell the friendlier ones to pet homes as do most working dog breeders.

[Drizlaru]

I stand corrected.

[vneerland]

I stand corrected.

Awww. Don't take it that seriously.

[Dutchringgirl]

Mina, you said it perfectly! After I got saide I felt like I had three kids!!!

[MinaHerdershonden]

Yup shes like having multi bratty kids because shes sooo smart and part of the family, so shes like well the cats are in the kitchen omg do you see them?!??! Mom look the cats are being bad! Nooo mina YOU just arent allowed in while im cooking the cats arent being bad! So she lays down at the thresh hold she cant cross and streeeches her arms over it and is like WHAT?! And thay the everyday little battles! Lol she was ok off leash but i had someone butt in out of line and killed her recall, and now she knows she can take off, it really up sets me because she was doing so well but now will take off and is SO fast, and knows when she has a line on so its hard to make any progress with it, she leaves our 13 acres in two seconds, but yeah, i have to take her biking everyday, do alot of training, and a long walk, and time on her runner chain playing fetch, EVERYDAY or shes out of her mind, IF you have money for a serious trainer i would say sure, but im the trainner here and its ALIT of work, i think belgian mals are close in temperment, the neighbor has one and had him imported and sent to bosten for training (personal security training) and flys the trainner in each month to nc....hes good with the kids that are 7 and 9 but is handler hard he wont listen to his wife lol, i think a large high energy dog it just TO much for kids as young as yours and i dont know about the rest of you but my Mina has shark teeth, they have a VERY hard mouth, labs have a soft mouth, so even if they mouth you it wont hurt, uf Mina just not meaning to touches my hand while playing her jagged egded teeth can cut you up, her front ( in between the canine teeth those little usually flat edged teeth) are pointed and have extra edges so even puppy mouthy playing not even puting pressure she could do real damage to a little one, shes old enough to know not to mouth little kids, but a real pup might not, another dog might not. Just something to think about in terms if kid safety, shes great shes awesome, i love her and the breed, but not baby safe as a puppy, and again VERY hard mouth! Good luck! I hope even if you choose to wait on a dutch that you do get one later on!