Dutch Shepherd Forum

My Name is Vendo, I have owned Dutchies since 2007. I own a security business here in Queensland where I utilise this breed for man and dog patrols.

My First dog "Rakker" is a proven breeder and well know protection dog. He is the only dog to ever be graded in K9 Pro sport as a Protection dog and a off lead patrol dog. My kennel name "Van Rakker Dutch Shepherds" is his obvious name sake.

I have bred 3 litters of Dutchies the first two from FCI lines and the last litre on the ground now from sporting KNPV lines.

I am very passionate about this breed and about the pups and dogs I sell. I have found breeding to be a frustrating experience at times.

For my last litre I turned to people with more experience than I have and I have imported two titled dogs from Belgium. So far I am very impressed with what I now have.

I am by no means an expert and I openly admit I have had to change my mind set in regards to this breed and its breeding future.

Look forward to learning.

Vendo Vincent wrote:My Name is Vendo, I have owned Dutchies since 2007. I own a security business here in Queensland where I utilise this breed for man and dog patrols.

My First dog "Rakker" is a proven breeder and well know protection dog. He is the only dog to ever be graded in K9 Pro sport as a Protection dog and a off lead patrol dog. My kennel name "Van Rakker Dutch Shepherds" is his obvious name sake.

Welcome to the forum. I hope to visit Australia one day. And congrats on your accomplishments with your dogs!!

K9 Pro Sports as in the USA Sport owned by Butch Capel? What level of title did you accomplish in the sport? I showed in that venue in 2002-2004. I had heard that they had some trails in other countries, but am excited to speak with someone who participated during that time. If you enjoyed that sport, you may want to check out the Protection Sport Association. Its a civilian suit based, scenario sport. Similar, yet different in a lot of ways too. Lots of fun.

We would love to see picture of your dogs!!

If you get a moment, please visit the User Control Panel and create a signature that includes your name. I just helps us all sort out who is who!

Thanks Christie

Pro Sport looks as if it might be dead here now. I am hopeing to revive it myself as well as bring mondioring to Australia. I know Butch quite well and yes it was through K9 Pro Sport in USA.

In the 4 years we had the competition running here in Australia Rakker is the only dog to have passed with enough scores to have been cirtified as an On lead prtotection dog and off lead Patrol dog as well as wining every event in every state and completeing this all in one year.

I will have to look at the Protection Sport Assiciation, I have heard of it and I do like the idea of changeing senarios. I will upload some picture shortly here is a link to a youtube video that is a summery of mostly prosport.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-PmzwavVN0

Welcome Vendo (?) I bet I don't have to ask what KNPV line Rakker comes out of. If he is in your avatar, that is no doubt a heavy built, big headed, wide chested Van Leeuwen.
You must be very devoted to your dogs to want to go through the import circus that Australia makes you go through. Or did they relax their (quarantine) requirements?

Not that i am aware of judith, it's his pedigreed dog. Although it is very familiar. Welcome!


Ps saw the site and rakkers pedigreed name, ok....you were right Juut. Who are his parents, Vendo?
Guessing Mach as dad?

Thank you for the welcome. And yes Selena is right Rakker is a pedigreed Dutchie, father is Mach. The story with Rakker is a long one. I originaly did not import him here after a few exchanges he ended up in my hand in January 2007 as a 1 year old, pretty useless pup.

My old business partner had originally imported him into the country and sold him to a very well know dog trainer here. He then sold the dog to me. I was not wise enough to secure Rakkers pedigree papers before I left the business and since then there has been a campaign to discredit me.

After I got Rakker I imported a FCI bitch from Czech Republic , Wapini Kennels ( I think ).

The thing with the pedigree dogs I have found is that you do not know their true heritage. And as Veerland pointed out Rakker has a very distinctive head which does not agree with the breed description of FCI lines. I have discovered that Rakkers heritage is most probably a fake one. And this dose pain me but if I wanted to breed these dogs I had to change my thinking and look at why most of the world was looking at KNPV lines and not FCI. This is why I like dogs sports because you have an opportunity to test your breeding ( training ) despite what is said on paper.

I have been very fortunate to get in contact with Jean and Kathleen Lobbinger from http://www.vanhetitterdal.be and imported two of his dogs from KNPV lines. Male Boris by Tommy (Luyken) and out of Digger (Steyvers). And a female Ameggie BY Harry and out of Eclips van Neerland. We have our first litre on the ground now at three weeks of age. And I can notice the difference already.
In the end as the saying goes a good dog is a good dog. My preference is to breed dogs that are tested. In Australia there is a culture to just breed for the sake of it. I intend to turn this around at least with the pups and the lines I seek to strengthen.

Importing into Australia is very painful and I could only joke about it with poor Jean when he had to deal with it. In the end it was not that difficult from my end.

Rakker has a Van Leeuwen head (and body) oh I can help you out on true lineage of Mach..
You're other boy is a Rocky- grandson, Tommy is a Rocky son.

Selena wrote:Ps saw the site and rakkers pedigreed name, ok....you were right Juut. Who are his parents, Vendo? Guessing Mach as dad?

I am pretty sure we can both recognize one of yours, regardless of who they claim to be.

Vendo Vincent wrote:The thing with the pedigree dogs I have found is that you do not know their true heritage. And as Veerland pointed out Rakker has a very distinctive head which does not agree with the breed description of FCI lines. I have discovered that Rakkers heritage is most probably a fake one. And this dose pain me but if I wanted to breed these dogs I had to change my thinking and look at why most of the world was looking at KNPV lines and not FCI. This is why I like dogs sports because you have an opportunity to test your breeding ( training ) despite what is said on paper.

I think, that if you are alert, you might pick up, in this very thread, who Rakkers real ancestors are. I know that would probably please you on one hand (working lines) but on the other hand, it would confirm that he is not who his (missing) papers say he is. And yes, that is a true shame, that so many honest DS lovers have to find out that the who is who in this breed can be a bit of a guessing game, even though a good dog is a good dog, right?

Vendo Vincent wrote:I have been very fortunate to get in contact with Jean and Kathleen Lobbinger from http://www.vanhetitterdal.be and imported two of his dogs from KNPV lines. Male Boris by Tommy (Luyken) and out of Digger (Steyvers). And a female Ameggie BY Harry and out of Eclips van Neerland. We have our first litter on the ground now at three weeks of age. And I can notice the difference already.
In the end as the saying goes a good dog is a good dog. My preference is to breed dogs that are tested. In Australia there is a culture to just breed for the sake of it. I intend to turn this around at least with the pups and the lines I seek to strengthen.

You have plenty of 'family' out there. Selena already mentioned how Tommy Luyken is a grandson to their Rocky van Leeuwen. And I bred Eclips out of my Yaska and my Nico van Neerland. Good to have you here and looking forward to your hearing more about our down under brindles.

vneerland wrote:

Selena wrote:Ps saw the site and rakkers pedigreed name, ok....you were right Juut. Who are his parents, Vendo? Guessing Mach as dad?

I am pretty sure we can both recognize one of yours, regardless of who they claim to be.

Yup... Pretty recognisable...

Rakker is out of mach and " tara l' croc d'olympe" ? Pm me

vneerland wrote: I think, that if you are alert, you might pick up, in this very thread, who Rakkers real ancestors are. I know that would probably please you on one hand (working lines) but on the other hand, it would confirm that he is not who his (missing) papers say he is. And yes, that is a true shame, that so many honest DS lovers have to find out that the who is who in this breed can be a bit of a guessing game, even though a good dog is a good dog, right?

I will not be a hypocrite and say I do not care about the papers. It is just a shame that the body that controls who has the papers has little interest in dogs, in my opinion. I consider the papers to almost be a curse because so much value is put onto them regardless of the dog. Especially in this country.

My opinion has not always been so open. My early arguments where naive in nature. I own a working dog forum here in Australia and I have got the opportunity to delete what I have said but I prefer to leave it as I am quite comfortable with people knowing I have changed my mind. And you are right it is good to know he is from working lines and my judgement of the FCI Dutchies and their capabilities were based on his performance as a dog both at work , training and on the field.

I am excited about the current litre because of despite any success in training or in work. No one has bred a dog here that I would consider to be a great dog so far, including me. My aim is to have an Aussie Dutchie that can be shown as being excellent in temperament , excellent on the field and at work and one that a overseas breeder would want to buy.

vneerland wrote: You have plenty of 'family' out there. Selena already mentioned how Tommy Luyken is a grandson to their Rocky van Leeuwen. And I bred Eclips out of my Yaska and my Nico van Neerland. Good to have you here and looking forward to your hearing more about our down under brindles.

I am glad I came across this site, seems as if I am in good company.

Vendo Vincent wrote:I will not be a hypocrite and say I do not care about the papers. It is just a shame that the body that controls who has the papers has little interest in dogs, in my opinion. I consider the papers to almost be a curse because so much value is put onto them regardless of the dog. Especially in this country.

If you want to breed good dogs, I think it is imperative that you should know the bloodline. And if you want to know the bloodline, it would be important to have a bit of a paper trail, preferably a true one.
Papers do not make a working dog, that is absolutely true.
I am confused about your standpoint though. If you don't care about papers, then why did you import pups from Lobbinger? Surely that was related to the fact that his stock is FCI papered? Because otherwise, you could have picked true/titled KNPV working lines, without the pedigree?

Welcome
This sure is interesting, I recognised some looks in Rakker too

How does it work in Australia with pedigrees anyway, is it FCI too, or some other organisation? FCI is only europe, right? Is the breed recognised down under?

Welcome! I agree that this is an interesting read about lineage.

I did say “I will not be a hypocrite and say I do not care about the papers”, because I do. Where the curse comes into it is that here the FCI body, Australian National Kennel Council (ANKC), is a private organisation and at the core of its association to the law it is seen as nothing more than a private dog club. But for some reason there are laws written involving ANKC as if they were some type of government authority.

I agree that the papers are important to document (hopefully accurately ) where the dogs come from. As we can see this has so far not been my experience. In Australia our mindset is that the Australian Kennel Council is in fact a government body. The ANKC ( Kennel council) here are really only conformation based yet as a private organisation they seem to have a great deal of influence even over government policy. For example if I sell a pup to one of the Southern States like Victoria they will immediately want or insist on pedigree papers from the ANKC (FCI). This is because the Victorian Government dog control employees have power to take any dog they think looks like a Pit Bull. I know Dutchies look nothing like them but you would be surprised what they will pick up. The one thing that they have agreed on as “proof” that the dog is not a Pit Bull is ANKC (FCI) papers.

I have only been involved with working dogs since 2005. Rakker is was my third working dog when I got him. ( I have had many more since then ). And Rakker is the only dog I have trained ( with lots of help) from start to end, to a reasonable standard. So I know where my ability and experience is at and I know how much more I have got to learn. In my previous business I also imported 4 Dutch Shepherd Pups from Sweden. Two I cannot comment on as I have had no experience with them but the other two from an A litre were useless. If I was going to spend money and put someone through the export process of Australia then I wanted tested adult dogs with FCI papers, preferably no more than two or three generation in an open stud book.

So importing these two dogs was a great opportunity for me and I am glad for help I received. In the future, yes, importing a titled KNPV dog is still an option but I am hesitant to import pups again.

Dutch Shepherds are recognise here now as a FCI Breed. We were the first to submit the Breed standard to the Kennel club to get them to recognised. Not realy a big proccess however.

I think perhaps there is an option is to have a Working dog registry, then things would change a bit here it would not be FCI but that is not a bad thing.