Dutch Shepherd Forum

My dog is very submissive toward family members and very well behaved in our home.
The problem is he is very dominant towards other dogs. He is fine with females (I noticed he even submisses to some) and puppies and small dogs (like maltese etc..i think he sees them as toys), but not very friendly with males of his size, especially around his age. I think he is fine with older guys.

There haven`t been any real fights, but it causes tension and I dont like that. I leave the park before it escalates so im not sure if he would hurt a dog if we dont leave. The closest thing to a fight was when we met a GSD who really wanted to dominate him, with mounting and all, and Olaf resisted so there was a lot of growlng and teeth. The gsd`s owner wanted to leave them to settle on their own, but i took my boy and went home. Not only that was stupid and unnecessary, and we would probably never see them again (as we didnt), but the gsd was 45kg, and Olaf is 27.


Is there any chance of training him to not be so dominant?
And btw, he is neutered 3 months ago.



*More details if anyone cares:
Maybe its just a coincidence, but i think its getting worse after we went to obedience school. He had to be close to other dogs that he even didnt have a chance to meet properly, and i think that builded up frustration and stress.
With some dogs its just sniff-sniff and than ignore, or even play (maybe they are submissive to him in some subtle dog language) (and there was more of this before we went to school, than now), but some he follows around, and tries to dominate by putting head on their back etc, i think he even bit gently one dog on the neck. Although a dog seems to ignore him, he follows him and "pokes". If that lasts for more than 1-2 mins I usually take him away, because im not sure what would happen next, and its not fun at all. There is sometimes a bit of growling too.
(all of this is in our local park where dogs are off leash)

But a bit different thing happened yestrday, and one today:
Yesterday we were at a park and there were also a female dogge baurdaux and 5 month lab. It was great. I was very proud because a bit further there were a male adult GSD and a maltese. He went there a couple of times, politety sniffed with both and left them alone. So.. there comes a big male lab mix, bigger than Olaf. He aproaches the dogs with high tail, fur upright , Olaf does the same thing. They sniff a bit, all tense and "big" and then stare in each others eyes, face to face, for a couple of sec at 2 meter distance. In a sec, out of nowhere Olaf growls and barks at him , literally chases him off. I`ve never seen him do something like that. I recalled him, and he came to me, and the dog and his owner go on with their walk. A few sec later he wanted to go after him, but a strong NO and he sayed. We never met that dog before, btw.(And i was very happy about his obedience that time, because he doesnt always listen)

Today: we went to the vet`s and then to the park. There was noone there except a male pug, and his owner siting on the bench. I decided it was fine because he is fine with the small ones. He sniffs the pug and we go a bit further to play fetch with sticks etc (maybe 50m away from the pug). All was great until the pug came closer to us where we could see him (maybe 30m away). Olaf ran to him and that`s where he started harrassing him. He didnt growl or anything (and couldnt put head on his back even if he wanted), but he followed the little one everywhere, sniffing him and blocking his way. He didnt listen to me at all, so after a couple of minutes I started to move away from him (he usually runs after me), and called him but he didnt listen until I was really far (further than any polite dog-owner distance:)). I put him on leash and a bit later he barked on another small dog (bacause he was on leash and couldnt get to him. he did that at school too).
Then he pooped (well more like wanted to poop) 3-4 times, so i came to mind he must be stressed from the vets and thats why he harrassed the little ones. On the other hand, that pug had really big wrinkles on his neck and back, so he might looked bristle (if thats the word, sorry, i had to look the dictionary)

First off, you're allowing him to practice this dominant/aggressive behavior. Not a good idea.

You're letting him blow you off and not listen to you at the dog park, not a good idea.

You can work on his behavior towards male dogs with some counter-conditioning/desensitization training, but to do that, you can't allow him off lead and free to interact as he wishes. He shouldn't have that kind of control, anyway.

Personally, I think this is a fight waiting to happen. Just keep doing the same stuff, and it's a matter of time .

I don't like dog parks to begin with. You can't control the other dogs, and it seems you can't really control your boy either.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but this is bottom-line stuff.

I hate dog parks.

leih merigian wrote:First off, you're allowing him to practice this dominant/aggressive behavior. Not a good idea.

You're letting him blow you off and not listen to you at the dog park, not a good idea.

You can work on his behavior towards male dogs with some counter-conditioning/desensitization training, but to do that, you can't allow him off lead and free to interact as he wishes. He shouldn't have that kind of control, anyway.

Personally, I think this is a fight waiting to happen. Just keep doing the same stuff, and it's a matter of time .

I don't like dog parks to begin with. You can't control the other dogs, and it seems you can't really control your boy either.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but this is bottom-line stuff.

No, please, you are not harsh. That`s why i posted this, to hear other people`s opinions and advice.

So how do you think i should correct or desensitize him? He isnt interested in food so i cant turn his attention to me, i cant even award him with food outside. because he doesnt even want to eat it.

Olie wrote: So how do you think i should correct or desensitize him? He isnt interested in food so i cant turn his attention to me, i cant even award him with food outside. because he doesnt even want to eat it.

Do a search on this forum for those phrases...counter-conditioning and desensitization. It's been described a lot . Then come back and ask any questions you have...

Olie wrote:Is there any chance of training him to not be so dominant?
And btw, he is neutered 3 months ago.

Yes and no.

I agree with Leih. You are moving fast towards one heck of a fight, if you let this pattern continue. He cannot be off leash around other dogs, unless you personally know the dog and know that they are a good match.
I think that is pretty much normal, really. I do have a large pack of dogs, but will make compatible groups when walking them. Even if they are really exposed to each other, that does not have to mean that they all (have to) get along! NEVER respond to the idiots that say they have to ''fight it out". The one who says that, more than likely has a dog aggressive dog that wins all the time. No owner of an underdog would offer that solution, trust me. So all you are doing is exposing your dog to defeat. And while it may work for a session or two, it will, eventually, come back and bite you in the butt.
My own example, from way back when I was young and stupid (now, I am no longer young)
I had a 4 month male malinois and would walk with a lady who had a 10 month old male malinios. They would play, but I was too green to recognize the head push from the 10 month old dog on my own 4 month old. They would get in little spats (mine would object to the attempted domination) and we would let them 'fight it out' Eventually, it moved on to little fights, with the older pup always winning of course. But as testosterone rages, my own dog did catch up. And we finally decided to stop walking together since it had started to become blood shed, though the older pup was still winning. My own pup, now 9 months old, spotted his former friend, now enemy one day, behind a fence in the park. I did not think there was any need to recall. I was wrong! He jumped the 5 foot fence and the other malinois and gave him quite the beating, before we as owners managed to break them up. This time, my dog was the clear victor. All the penned up frustration, and all the skill that he had acquired during his childhood came to fruition. And for the rest of that dogs life I had a formidable dog fighter, who would never instigate, but always answer any challenge. He could not be approached with high tail or hackels by any other male, or a fight would break out. My walks were miserable, always worried about the next mad owner who's vet bill I would have to pay. And of course, I was too stupid to understand that I had been instrumental in creating the problem, and still was, by not keeping him on a leash all the time (oh my poor pup, I wanted him to be free as much as possible) AND by my fear of the next fight, that went, literally, down the leash and kept his dog fighting alive for 10 years. It was not until I finally realized that my absolute FEAR (of the next fight about to happen) was just what was feeding my dogs behavior. I was afraid of that approaching dog. And he was going to defend me!!!
I had already been told, by some trainers, that I was responsible for his fighting. And I rejected it, of course. Wasn't I the one who called him back (with panic in my voice ) the one who scolded him afterwards, the one who could try to drag him away from the scene of the next crime? For some reason, one day -my dog was 10 by then- I heard the panic in my own voice when I called him back from an approaching male. It finally dawned on me, that he now had to defend me, since I was so scared. Naturally, my dog did not respond to me when I was so overly worried. I managed to change my voice to a casual tone and a total miracle happened, he came back! For the next 6 years, I had much better skills in preventing fights. It was not fool proof, since what I had taught him as a young dog (the skills to fight) could not be erased. All dogs that came after him were never allowed to start any argument. I still punish for that behavior, but am also aware of the fact that dogs, like people, do NOT like everyone in their (canine) environment, and should not be expected to. So let your dog play with trusted friends only, and ignore (as much as you can) all the others.
I hope this helps you.

Great story Judith, so well explained! Thanks for sharing it!!!

Dutchringgirl wrote:I hate dog parks.

I definitely share this sentiment.

Awesome story Judith!

I have to agree on the dog park issue. I never go to them, and never will.

To answer your question OP:

Is there any chance of training him to not be so dominant?

No you can't. You CAN train indifference and a better recall however.

You can't retrain genetic behavior any more then you could permanently change his fur color to pink. You can only train counter behaviors in what is acceptable to you. You may be able to train him to recall to you 99% of the time, with a wagging tail and a smile on his face, but there's never 100%. And just because he follows instructions, doesn't mean he doesn't still want to go do it.

Olie wrote: No, please, you are not harsh. That`s why i posted this, to hear other people`s opinions and advice.

So how do you think i should correct or desensitize him? He isnt interested in food so i cant turn his attention to me, i cant even award him with food outside. because he doesnt even want to eat it.

Well, what do you feed him for his meals? Does he like that?

Does he gets any kinds of treats or snacks during the day?

First, you have to find something that is very reinforcing for your dog. He has to really love it. How about peanut butter, have you ever tried that? What are you trying to use for training treats?

There was another dog on this board who had a similar issue, but it turned out he was getting a lot of snacks and such. Cut those out, suddenly we had a dog that would work for food . So, let's try to figure this part out, first.

I hope after reading the other responses you gleaned that you will have a management issue with him, for life. That means you will always have to be vigilant around him and other dogs, especially the kind who seem to set him off. He'll need to be kept on leash for you to have that kind of control.

Here are some suggestions to change his non-food motivated attitude.

You should start using broiled and roasted chicken cut up into bite size pieces, don't make them too big so he has to chew alot. That's not what your looking for, also as not to fill him up quickly.

If he doesn't go for the chicken, start trying different things. Meat products are one of the most common, personally my boy Leo has a thing for string cheese. Don't ask me why, but he goes nuts for it. I just cut it up in small pieces, put it in a plastic Ziploc baggie, then put the baggie in my training pouch and I'm good to go. If I don't use them all, I'll just stick the whole thing in the fridge.

The freeze dried liver Pro-Treats is another one to try. It's smelly, but alot of dogs I've seen like it.

Don't train after meal time. If I know I'm going to be training in the morning, then they can skip breakfast until after training. If I'm going to do a bunch of training periods during the day, they get no snacks during the day, and no training for 2 hours after meal time. If I want to train in the evening, or have a class in the evening, then they can have dinner after.

Don't free feed throughout the day. You can't control food motivation if he has free access to it whenever he wants. 20 minutes is all he gets. If he doesn't finish, then he can have it for the next meal. If he doesn't eat any at all, then he can have it for the next meal. It won't take him long to figure out food time is food time.
Stay consistent with a feeding schedule(as much as you can), and you can almost set your watch to what time he has to potty.
Of course, free access to clean water consistently, but you knew that. =P

The other thing I'll just give a reminder - there are rules in the pack. Pack rules, and leader rules. Pack rules are for EVERY dog / human pack relationship. These are cardinal rules which must be followed by every pack member. Breaking a pack rule is met with severe consequences by the pack leader, which will deal with the issue swiftly, harshly, and consistently. One of these such rules states that, "No lower ranking pack member can initiate a fight within or outside of the pack". Only the leader makes the determination of who, why, and where a fight will go down.

If your nervous around another dog, Olie is going to pick up on it and defend you by stepping into the leadership role and making the determination to fight. If your nervous all the time in anticipation of what MIGHT happen, he's going to pick up on that too and be hyper vigilant towards the behavior of other dogs in the area. Perhaps he feels the need to take on that role to shield you from being nervous.

Keep your emotions in check, be vigilant to your own body language. Keep mental notes as to what you do, and how you feel around other dogs. Try making a concerted effort to think about something else, and relax.

I guarantee you, his attitude will change if yours does as well.