Dutch Shepherd Forum

I was wanting some input on the diferences in French Ring Sport and PSA. I am currently training Gage for French Ring, but sadly our decoy had a heart attack last week and is recovering, thank God he is alright, so we have a decoy filling in that does PSA. Nice gentleman. He has invited Gage and I and a couple of other club members out to his club, and we went last night, had a great time, and Gage did very well for all the new experiences that he had in the bite work. I noticed the obedience is similar, at least for the temperament test, like the CSAU in French Ring, and there temp test in PSA. But how does the bite work differ? I noticed they are more vocal in the decoying, but is that the main difference? And can you train and compete in both French Ring and PSA at the same time, or are they to different to be able to do that correctly. Thanks for any input:)

Sorry for the delayed response. I haven't been able to completely keep up with all of the threads.

Obviously you know that both are suit sports. In FR, although any target area is acceptable, most dogs are taught legs. In PSA, any target is also acceptable, but upper body seems to be preferred. The goal of French Ring is for the decoy to be faster and outsmart the dog - esquive. The goal of PSA is to test the dogs natural nerve and training by being forward and frontal. In FR, the exercises are always known and the judging is the same from trial to trial (ideally). In PSA, there are surprise components and scenarios in the upper levels that will not be known until handlers walk out for the handler's meeting. The application of skill sets is consistent from one FR trial to another. The application of skill sets in PSA will vary in order and set up from trial to trial. Lastly, although attention is not judged in the PDC (protection dog certificate - entry level for PSA), it is judged in the PSA1 and above. It is possible to pass without attention, but there are significant point deductions. Most people do not train an attention heel for FR.

Lastly, although PSA has specific rules it is not as stringent as FR and few exercises are all or nothing when it comes to points.

I do know of people who have crossed over very well. The sensibility required of a FR dog (45 minute FRIII routine) bodes very well for a PSA dog. Many PSA dogs come from strong KNPV lines and have trouble thinking when a decoy is present.....or at least people have trouble teaching them to think. There is often concern about the safety of a pivot leg dog doing the PSA courage test. However, the safety of this catch is emphasized at decoy certifications and no leg dogs have been injured during a courage test...regardless of the propaganda that is often spouted. The reality is, most people like to talk about how great there sport is while criticizing others

Who have you been training with? As a judge for PSA, I know most of the people involved. As a competitor from the sport's onset, I love PSA. However, I also am open to lots of training and am looking forward to cross training my girls. There is little FR here (and I would love to see some Mondio), so we are doing PSA and IPO. But I fully intend to get a Brevet or more as time goes by!!

I was going to ask the same question, so thank you for your thorough answer, Christie! Now can anyone tell me about Mondo? I have only seen PSA in action.

Christie M wrote:There is often concern about the safety of a pivot leg dog doing the PSA courage test. However, the safety of this catch is emphasized at decoy certifications and no leg dogs have been injured during a courage test...regardless of the propaganda that is often spouted. The reality is, most people like to talk about how great there sport is while criticizing others

Could you elaborate on that? Just curious, never heard that although it does make sense. Do they catch the leg dogs differently? The PSA catches are like KNPV right, where the decoy walks into the dog. Would they give the leg on a leg bite but still do frontal/upper body pressure?

I really wish there was PSA closer to me, I would love to see a trial. YouTube aside, the training I've seen in NJ and VA looked like it would be a very intense and entertaining show to watch.

Thank you Christie for that response:) It was really helpful. I am currently working at a FR club and PSA group with my boy. I plan to do his CSAU and Brevet at the first of the year when he is a year old, and the PSA equivelent around the same time too. I also plan to do a BH on him next year aswell. I am working with a gentleman named Darrick Rose for the PSA. Thank you again for all the information:)