Dutch Shepherd Forum

Hi!
So, we've had our new girl, Riley, for almost three weeks. She's an absolute doll. We are finding out the difference between the learning ability of a almost six month old DS an our American pitbull. Our poor pittie seems to have been the kid held back a couple of grades compared to Riley. We are having a strange issue. Every night since day one, she has thrown what seems to be a tantrum between 7-8pm. It's like a two year old trying to keep herself awake. She bites, throws herself on the ground, bites our pittie's feet, jumps and cries, barks at the kitties, basically makes herself as hard to live with as possible. We keep her on a leash for her safety but no matter how much pleading, whining and discussions with her we have, nothing seems to be working. We've tried training, walks, treats, chewies, everything. Anyone know what's going on with our crazy baby?
Thanks bunches,
Michelle

1] anything different about that hour in your household that means she gets ignored during that period?
2] possible to know significance of that period in her prior life?
3] tired and cranky as you stated will give thought to this.

Oh, the dog?? Sounded like a child LOL. Sadie used to ( still does) get rambunctious at night too, maybe after dinner energy? I had her on a leash too but many times I would put her in her crate for quiet time, not a punishment, but that would be the only way she would settle down.

If you know it is going to happen between 7 and 8, then I would focus on making 6-7 a very mentally and physically stimulating time. Exhaust the heck out of her, then give her a stuffed Kong at 7. See f being tired and having something to focus on changes everything. Many dogs get a second burst in the evening.

This little darling is pretty hard to ignore. I wish I knew what happened to her in her previous home. It might make some of these issues easier to understand. I wish she could talk. We've tried to exhaust her. And tried. And tried...and tried. I think we're just building her stamina. LOL. We will definitely try to give her and Lily that last playtime outside tonight and maybe feed dinner a bit earlier. If that doesn't work, we'll give the crate a try. Maybe she will un-learn where mommy's buttons are and we can all watch TV without the tantrums. Thanks for the help. If anyone else thinks of something, please let me know. Riley is pretty smart and I'm sure that it's just a matter of time before she sees through my feeble attempts to distract her and starts something new.

Mine used to have bursts of energy in the evenings as well....suddenly run around like crazy. We used to call it crazy hour. But it wasn't like a temper tantrum, just running around the house like crazy, this sudden intense burst of energy. It could be something like that with your Riley, and if its too crazy for you, I would crate her. Discussing this with her is not going to do anything to help, lol, I can picture the scene, but dogs understand more from body language then talking. Maybe do something totally different, like a total change of scenery before it happens and see if that changes anything. If it is something like the crazy hour we used to go through, it does get better as they age.

Glad to hear it might only be a puppy thing. I can deal with it as long as it's not a permanent "condition". My husband laughs at me when I have discussions with Riley. I do it with Lily too, but she just looks at me like I've lost my mind. Riley stares intently like she's trying to listen. She does everything with that same intensity...playing, learning and loving. Very sweet but sometimes a little overbearing. I can't wait to go home and try something new with her. If it doesn't work, I'll go take a bubble bath with a good glass of wine and let the DH deal with the crazies.

The discussion with dogs is " down" or "Stay", Thats it, not , now doggie, pleas sit down. They need to know you are the pack leader and when you give a command, they do it. They do calm down / learn as they get older but depending on thier drive, they will still have moments of high energy. At 2 Sadie still has her moments in the evening where she just bursts with energy, or just wont stop sniffing, I still will put a leash on her and put her in a down and make her stay, eventually she will pass out. But.... a glass of wine and a bubble bath are always good.

Dutchringgirl wrote:But.... a glass of wine and a bubble bath are always good.

For you or for the dog?

I second Christie's advice.

Also, in lieu of a crate, you might condsider using an Xpen in your evening hang-out room. Have some stuff in there she likes, a rug/bed if she won't tear it up (mine would so didn't have one ), a few quiet toys that don't squeek (so you can hear the darn TV), a stuffed Kong, etc. I am a big believer that we have to teach our pups what we expect from them at each time of day, and this kind of confinement lets them be with the family, but unable to pester the other pets, you, etc. Eventually she learns that evening time is not play time, but quiet family time. She's still very young. She'll get it if you explain it to her in language she can understand (and I don't mean verbally ).

You've only had her a short time, and so you may not have done much training with her yet as she's a rescue, but one thing you may consider doing is to teach her a "go to place" cue, using a rug or mat as her place. (My cue is "rug.") Once she has that, you can have her settle on her rug next to you (leashed, of course), and dole out little tidbits over time as she relaxes on her rug while you all enjoy your evening together. (This is after she's had that last exercise and training time that Christie mentioned.) If she can settle and do this, great. If not, fine, into the crate or Xpen in the room with you. This makes it all her choice; if she does what you're asking, great, if not, that's her choice and she can amuse herself quietly in her confined space.

Dogs love routine and structure. We have to provide it for them. In our house, our evening starts with my DS on a rug next to me on the floor, and one of my cats in my lap, each getting their little treats over time. Then, they're released, and they each get a cookie. Then we're done and they just find someplace to relax and wait for bedtime and the final cookies .

leih merigian wrote:Then, they're released, and they each get a cookie. Then we're done and they just find someplace to relax and wait for bedtime and the final cookies .

Oh,, Thalie would be your best friend.....cookie?? she will stay right by you and look at you.

Sugars Mom wrote:

Dutchringgirl wrote:But.... a glass of wine and a bubble bath are always good.

For you or for the dog?

We escaped the tantrum tonight! We took a long walk, played hard with our exhausted pitbull (poor Lily can barely keep her eyes open), Riley had a bubble bath (I had the drink ), a hand full of treats, a soft towel and tons of patience. We are now all snuggling happily. I don't know if my patience will run out before the treats do but with one night without the crazies shows me it could be done. You guys are amazing. I will try everything else when my attempts fail. I'm sure we'll find what works. I feel like a good puppy mommy. If anyone else has more advice, I'd appreciate all of it. DS are smart and I can only hope that I learn to be smarter, or at least more patient.
Michelle

Way to go, Michelle!

The thing is to just keep trying different things, until you find what works for you. And, yes, Patience is Rewarded . Puppies take a ton of it (Of course, so do kids, so you are well-challenged )

Let me pass on one of my very favorite old timers' bit of dog advice; never do once what you don't want to do twice. Once you start something with them, it's very hard to stop it (or once you allow something ...you get my drift )

Teach her to 'settle'.start by encouraging calming behaviors; stroke her, speak calmly. As soon as she shows ANY calmer behavior, reward her and say 'Settle'. (I also taught head down) keep at it until calm behavior gets longer and longer, reward. Don't expect too long attention span at first. Now, I can say, ''let's play settle game!" she immediately lies down and waits for treat.just like a child, as her body gets in rest positions, mind will follow. Also useful for stopping spazed out behaviors on leash and elsewhere. Takes a bit of persistence but you are teaching her she can control her body against urges; this helps long term too. Mine also has a little song I sing that calms her- I sang it during calm periods. But that is another story!

This was probably first thing I taught her. Just like settle is sit, down, come. Show her what settle means by quickly rewarding as soon as she lies down, slows breathing, sighs, relaxes muscles, puts head down. You will have to watch and listen carefully! She needs to understand what behavior is desired over her choice of behavior. If she does not know; she will choose behavior she chooses!

So you used treats and calming attention to let her know this is good dog behavior! This is what you expect of her. Good dog mamma!

It does take patience, but mine was about 6 mos old when I got her, and I think she certainly had the idea within a week or two; she looked forward to the settle game. I would even say, "let's play the settle game!" and she jumped in her bed herself and would lie down on her side with head down ("good head down!") with some
wag and wag as it was easy way to get treats. I am sure SHE thought she was training me to give treats for just doing this. Just keep saying, 'that's it, settle, settle, good dog, settle, show me settle settle." I can't wait to see how long it does take. It is tough for puppy as it is probably first time it is being made to control its wiggly body. Again; if she can learn it as a cue word; you can eventually use it if she is hyper in other situations.

Very useful. Example, mine was barking up a tree in my yard, I went to check and found cat up a tree. So I said these cues she knows: "settle" that calmed her some to stop running around tree and barking gave treat
Then next most important to learn "leave it" she knows that means move her attention away from whatever it is on ; gave treat; then said "follow" and we both headed to house. Gave her treat. Then once in lots of good dogs and hugs. So other night; opossum up a tree; did same and it went even faster! So it is very very useful cue to learn.

For mine, even though it was among first I taught her; she certainly caught on to a useful point less than a month. Then, secondarily, if you stick to same time same routine, she learns it is 'nite nite' time and goes to sleep. Of course plenty of chews available as reward and to get rid of excess mental energy.

I did not have to exercise to wear out. At first it was just little short things as I said and catching those with a treat and YES! Then part of the game was to try to do it a little longer, I would count 2 seconds, 5 seconds, 10 seconds. I DO find if I spend a minimum of 15 minutes devoted to playing with her actively at any time of day; her over all behavior is just better. It is a treat in itself.

As far as patience, I believe more intelligent the dog; more patience in training as the dog has to figure it out in its mind's terms. They actually LEARN; not just react. Also; until they learn to learn; and look to learning as fun attention; that they please you; that this is what you want; it takes a little longer. After a bit; it seems they realize they are supposed to be doing SOME behavior to get a reward. They will try different things and soon they 'guess' better at what you want. All part of the game of learning. Fun, treats, fun, attention.

SO the more persistent and patient you are in first steps; the reward will pay off later. But you do have to wait for attention span to mature or they spaz out and get hyper and frustrated.
Also, as you know, at some point there is meeting of minds and understanding and communication between you and dog grows; you read them better; they read you; and everyone relaxes! And trust comes.

Also I have been told, if you give a cue dog should know but does not do when asked; do not just keep repeating it. Several reasons for this; but for mine; in MOST cases it is because she is distracted from me and not paying attention. So I lightly poke her with finger, jiggle leash, make funny sound etc. To get attention. Then more times than not, she does what I ask right then!

I NEED SUGGESTIONS TO SOLVE THIS ONE:
**NOW, if anyone has hints for decreasing MINE'S desire to 'talk' to me with whining sounds! (like Lassie when Timmy was down in the well". It is getting some better; it is how she talks to me not always because she wants something. It is just annoying sound, and if in public sounds pitiful to untrained ear. She is not unhappy either. I think it may be because person that had her from 3-6 mos was deaf and did not know so she learned it was ok.