Dutch Shepherd Forum

We are a family of four (6 and 8 yr old girls) and we are looking to add a fur family member. This is our first pet with the kids. We are looking for a smart, energetic, but not too energetic, loyal, and loving dog. We looked into mals but they are just too much energy and they need a bit too much experience in training, that we just don't have yet. GS shed a lot more then my husband can handle (allergies) and we were told they tend to bark a lot more then DS's. A DS is what was recommended. But I want to get a little more info before you decide. We are a homeschooling family (I work from home) and are active. Like to hike and be out doors when we can. We live in Southern NM and the weather varies from cold in the winter and very hot in the summer. But we also enjoy hanging out in the house on a Sunday watching sports and playing games. We don't travel out of town very often. Would a DS fit with this type of family?????
Thanks in advance

Personally, I wouldn't get a DS for your family. IME, most DS are very very similar to malinois. Of course different lines are going to vary, but this is a very active/energetic breed that needs constant training and a job to do. There are a ton of KNPV DS, and they can be even more drivey and intense than the mals bred from AKC stock.

If you do want a shepherd breed, I would look into adopting a GSD mixed with a more laid back breed, or maybe a senior dog.

Welcome to the forum though! I'm sure there's a perfect breed out there for you. I would call up a shelter or any local dog trainers to see if they could find a dog that best matches your lifestyle.

I have to second Stephanie's advice. Your concern about the training experience needed for a Mal...well, you'd need solid experience to raise a DS as well.

You might want to consider a lab or even golden retriever from field/working lines. Those dogs are much different from the show lines (as with any breed), but I believe they'd fit much better into an active-family lifestyle without requiring the knowledge to be able to raise a dog that's been bred for protection work.

Don't get me wrong...any dog will require solid training, as I'm sure you expect, especially for the first 18 months to two years of life, but an easier dog would be a better bet for your family.

I third Stephanie's advice. There are plenty of other breeds that are easy to train and make better family pets then the DS and love to hike and be active, but have much less drive than the DS. IMHO a DS should not be a first dog, or second dog for that matter unless you have some solid dog training under your belt. They are not very forgiving of mistakes and need alot more than just weekend activity. Kids can also be a concern with DS as in any breed but I would go for a breed that is a solid "family dog". I have two DS, my older girl is the best with kids, my daugther dresses her, manicures, scarves, you name it, and I also did alot of bite work with her, my younger DS, is not as forgiving with kids, she does get the dress and scarf but not as good with the kids as my older DS, I have to keep an eye on the younger DS.

a fourth voice to back up what Stephanie said, but wish to highlight one thing in particular [ other than definitely NOT a DS !] which is, as she suggested, try a mix [ she said a GSD mix, but don't rule out anything in advance - the perfect dog for you will be the perfect dog for you no matter what it is]. a GSD mix would give you the smarts and other qualities. regularly check sites of shelters within driving range, sign up for notification of ''shepherds'' up for adoption in your region via pet-finder and adopt-a-pet. then, when one seems good in a shelter or on-line, you can do a meet and greet with whole family and dog. you are much more likely to get what you are looking for and, especially with a smart dog, you will get a dog that is very aware and appreciative of what you have done in saving it and giving it a new home.

You said this would be your first dog as a family but do you have any significant prior dog experience? I'm thinking you could potentially give an older rescue mal or DS a home IF you have enough dog experience to properly home and train these dogs. An older mal or ds will still have tons of energy compared to the average dog but may be more manageable and have some prior training. ...and who told you that a GSD will bark more then a DS?? Have they ever met a live DS??

Otherwise there are tons of breeds that fit the description of energetic but not over the top, smart, less shedding. I'm thinking possibly a German Short Hair Pointer, depending on what you define as the perfect energy level, they can be fantastic family dogs with enough exercise. A lab sounds like it could fit too and there are so many various lines you could pick and choose how much energy level would be ideal, they range from slobs to bouncy bouncy off the wall crazy. Or just get on Petfinder.com and start browsing and save a life

Hi,
I'm a new d/s owner of amber who is 8month from knpv background. I agree of all the above mentioned.
I've owned and trained a rough collie, border collie,Doberman and currently have neo x American bulldog, Boerboel and now my little d/s. I studied the d/s for three years before I decided on what line to get, so you could say I was prepared for her, but guess what, she mentally and physically test me every day, morning night. I have 6aces of private land for her with home made agility, dog training twice a week as well, and currently asking for help and tips to help bring out the best in her from owners on this forum. reading your post and like the other said if you haven't got any dog experience I would choose another breed that is more handler friendly. I hope this has given you a little insight into a first time d/s owner
Rgds
Paul

I 4th (5th?) the advice above. I own a Malinois and a DS. Both...... are a pain in the ass, in a good way. Both require firm, fair, very consistent training through out their life. I consider the Malinois and DS very similar in their drives and temperaments. Further, keep in mind the DS was never bread for confirmation and still is not. They are true working dogs and the desirable traits in a working dogs can be a nightmare as a family pet. Because they are bread for working they need something to do. It's a positive your job allows you to work at home (as does mine) so the dog would have the opportunity to work all day rather than be crated all day while you're at work. That being said, they can (and do) make great pets if you're willing to put in the first few years of work. Both my idiots go everywhere with me and both have jobs. One is training for narcotics detection and the other is training in explosives plus the do IPO and PSA stuff every week.

This is a great article about Malinois' but just about everything you read there can be applied to dutchies as well.

http://bayareadogtrainer.wordpress.com/ ... ont-touch/


Also, if you decide to get a Mali or Dutchie and you're not overly concerned with bloodlines there is very active rescues in the US. Hit those guys up first

Allergies? How certain are you that your husband can handle dog dander? It is proteins from the dog, most problematic with airborne dander that triggers allergies, not hair. The amount of dander produced by any dog is a combination of individual genetics and environment, what they eat, dry indoor air, etc.

If allergies are a real problem, you might consider a slick coated dog like a greyhound or pointer that can be hosed off or rubbed clean with a wet towel every day. There are pointy eared dogs in the sight hound family that have a similar shape but different color than the DS. The Ibizan Hound is a good example. Sight hounds are couch potatoes inside but active outside.

There are other working breeds like the Doberman with slick coats. And there are many family friendly mutts with slick coats waiting for you at the shelter.

Whatever dog you find, let it slobber and rub all over your husband first. Make sure he can handle the allergies. No dog needs to be tossed from it's new home because the owner can't breathe. Not good for the dog and heartbreaking for your kids.

the idea of a greyhound is a great one on many counts as outlined above - and many young adults need homes after early retirement. they are smart,cuddly couch potatoes that relish a hike. loving, low maintenance dogs that are readily available in grown-up form, skipping the hassles of puppy-hood. like DS, they are intelligent enough to be really interesting, but they lack the sharp edges of mals and ds - really laid back until their prey drive kicks in with fast-moving furry things. no rabbits or agitated cats in the household.

johninny wrote:the idea of a greyhound is a great one on many counts as outlined above - and many young adults need homes after early retirement. they are smart,cuddly couch potatoes that relish a hike. loving, low maintenance dogs that are readily available in grown-up form, skipping the hassles of puppy-hood. like DS, they are intelligent enough to be really interesting, but they lack the sharp edges of mals and ds - really laid back until their prey drive kicks in with fast-moving furry things. no rabbits or agitated cats in the household.

Oh yes greyhounds! My neighbor has a brindle one and it's so pretty. It's like a stretched out, calmed down version of a DS and she keeps her intelligence on the inside if that makes sense. I don't know how else to word it, but I really like their muscular butts too.

Hi Berry Family,

I hope you haven't run away yet! I do want to provide a slightly different opinion to what is written above. I am a recent DS owner and we do not work our dog in any of the protection sports. She lives with us in a very small apartment in Philadelphia and we take her to the park and work her on ball, frisbee and lots of obedience (including some tricks). She is intense when we work her, but laid back when she's just relaxing on the couch with us or napping in our bed. We rescued her through the North America Dutch Shepherd Rescue (NADSR), which is an AMAZING organization. If you're looking for a companion pet DS, your best bet is probably NADSR. Breeders are more likely to be breeding working dog lines, which means that their ideal customer is someone who wants a working dog (e.g. police, military, dog sport).

Not every DS is alike. Yes, the DS is bred to be a working dog, which means that training is a must. They do need to be both mentally and physically stimulated everyday. We exercise/train Amber at least 1 hour every day, and often much more on weekends.

We adopted Amber when she was a year old, so we didn't have to deal with the puppy stage of neediness and messiness and we were more likely to have a "what you see is what you get" dog.

I do agree with the other commentators on this thread that you should consider other breeds. Because there are many breeds that are smart, active, family dogs! Finding a dog of Amber's more relaxed attitude among the DS population could be a 20% chance, but finding the same attitude in the Labrador or greyhound population could be 80%. However, if you're set on the DS (and we can understand because we all love the breed on this forum), you should just be very careful with selecting the right one for your family: maybe 80% of the total DS population may not work, but 20% will.

One more thing. I believe that every dog, regardless of breed, should be trained. Because not training your dog is like not educating your child. This goes for the DS as well as a Labrador or a greyhound. The difference is that they greyhound can lounge at home and relax all day without a care in the world, but the DS feels like he needs a purpose in life and he needs to do a job. If you give him a job and an outlet for that, he'll be very happy.

I hope that helps! I don't want to discourage you from getting a DS, because clearly, I have a DS that is a companion animal (whose job is frisbee catching and obedience). I just want you to get the right DS for what your family's requirements.

Annie

While it may be true that there is a percentage the could function fine as a family pet, it's so hard to tell if they're going to be that way their entire life. When you throw kids into the mix, it becomes a completely different ball game.

Those that start out behaving properly can still start acting up if they don't have a job or the right kind of family environment. I think Laura and Stella are a great example of a DS that fit well into an regular/active family scene, but over time proved that she still needed an outlet. If you look at the posts on here from katm4110, they ended up having to do a lot more work with Stella than they planned.

It really depends on if a potential owner is willing to take the risk. Laura, in my opinion, has done an excellent job realizing Stella's potential and getting her into good training classes and even preparing for IPO. If a family adopts a dog and their situation isn't flexible enough to change focus to the dog's needs like she did, they'll either deal with unwanted behaviors or have to rehome the dog. Neither are great options when you have kids. I'm hoping she'll see this thread in between making tons of creative stuff for her new hobby/side business and chime in.

The bite sports aren't completely necessary, but there are a ton of other jobs that the dogs can do. Odin does agility and competitive obedience and is starting into nosework. He's showing some herding potential and I'm interested in starting to do goose removal services for golf courses and schools, so we're discussing our training options. There are plenty of outlets available if someone has the time to dedicate.

Thank you Stepanie!

In addition to her comments, I think it's a good idea to remember the comments and questions from the OP. It's not just a question of if it's possible for a DS to be happy in a family environment. Of course, that's possible. In the right family. With the right DS that fits that specific family.

Aside from that generality, tho, consider the OP's statement that "...mals need a bit too much experience in training." Clearly, they're not interested in having a dog who is a project, training-wise, nor one that needs more experience than they are being honest about having.

Anyone who doesn't think a DS needs an owner who is dedicated to training as well as providing the right "job" and enough activity doesn't really understand this breed. And, for most of the DS that are bred in the US, coming from KNPV lines, I think it's a good idea if that dedication comes from someone who has some decent training experience already, and who has some concept of what "working lines" means .

agreed [with Stephanie and Leih], yes, there may be a percentage of DS that can relax all day, but it is certainly not 20% unless we are talking of senior dogs - and even then they run the pants off most dogs. as for NADSR, the dogs' need for dedicated and knowledgeable handling is mostly how these dogs got into kill shelters, etc., AND THUS INTO NADSR's HANDS IN THE FIRST PLACE. cannot speak to Amber yet - too early, but amber did go through some of the best, intensive foster care and training for an extended period before going to her adoptive family [ and is being sent BACK there for a vacation]. that is unusual, very unusual, so maybe between that training and the dog's own temperament, problems will be avoided. but the chance of getting a DS [ other than an older more ''senior'' dog ] that does not have the Malinois characteristics you do not want is extremely slim - and even with extreme care and a long and informed search period, that result would require a bit of good luck.
I put that ''percentage'' at well than than 5%; after all, the characteristics of the breed ARE the characteristics of the dogs in that breed and DS are remarkably consistent in those characteristics, despite differing personalities. on a simplistic level, some are goofy sweet and others not so, but almost without exception, they are intense, determined, and need their minds to be busy even more than their bodies. they have an acute awareness of themselves as beings and do not meekly defer to even long-time human companions the way most people expect of their dogs. and any DS - even a well-trained, long-time, sweet-variety companion - can get himself worked into an unattractive and potentially dangerous lather if he feels slighted or the quality of his life, particularly in relation to his human[s], is not up to snuff. [ I had the greatest, most civilized DS (mix?)( had a built-in, easy-to-use off switch) for over 12 years. private message me for a phone #to reach me to hear the most harrowing story with even this dog that cropped up very suddenly half-way though our relationship.]
most of the people on this site love these dogs for just this sort of stuff, but it means adding one to your family is not like adding a regular dog, which is quite enough responsibility in itself. It is more akin to adopting a teenager in the midst of prime rebellion age. plentiful and arrogant intelligence mixed with irrationality, bursts of anger, and boundless energy are a dangerous [ and exciting ] mix. but definitely not for everyone

suggest watching the 2 youtube channels attached to my signature for a hint of what they NEED/ MUST HAVE in their daily lives. the 2 dogs on the sakimadoggy channel were like that 14 hours a day. the video was not capturing the exceptional moments but the routine. in fact, could never cope simultaneously with camera and their really crazed times, so what you will see is the relaxed, good behavior, not the crazy stuff when the camera had to go away.

oh, and Stephanie, I know exactly what you mean about greyhounds keeping their intelligence on the inside. it's as if they were modest, but I say it's more them being sneaky and wanting to be under-estimated and not intimidating. whereas, I think most of us would agree that DS have conscious desire to show off their mental AND physical prowess. I know sometimes mine have done things solely to show that they were capable of it.