New CA Member... DS Advice???

[DSELLEGIRL]

My wife and I adopted Ella from the SF SPCA in August 2012. According to the veterinarian and surrender records provided to us, Ella is a Dutch Shepherd. We had never heard of a DS before we read the documents. We are now reading everything available on the DS, so all tips are welcome!

So far, Ella has a very sweet disposition around adults and children. We have a Rhodesian Ridgeback as well and they are learning to settle in with each other. There have been a few bumps in the road, but so far, so great!

I recently called a trainer that specializes in GSD, DS, BM and Rottweilers. The lady that runs the training classes said some things that concern us. We told her that we were taking our DS to the local dog park and she told us that we will need to stop because the DS is NOT a dog that is friendly to "other" dogs outside of the family pack. She went on to say that the DS will NEVER back down from a fight and has a VERY aggressive personality. She also told us that our DS is going to become extremely dominant over the next 6-12 months and would need a firm hand during training. She said pinch/prong collars or choke chains are an absolute must.

Is any of this true??? It's hard to believe that our sweet DS is going to be an out of control monster. Also, will her ears ever stand up? (She's 1 year 5 months.)

Please send all tips and comments. My wife and I would really appreciate it. Thank you in advance! I attached a couple pics of our Ella.

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[Brindle]

Welcome to the DS forum
Thankyou for adopting Ella.
She is very beautiful.
Looks like there might be something else mixed in with her. Maybe Greyhound ? ? Just something about her build. Those ears won't stand now that she's an adult. I think the other breed in her is giving her those ears. They are super cute though You're going to have lots of adorable photos of that face !

Run, don't walk, away from that trainer that over the phone is telling you what your dog will do without ever having seen her.
Sounds like a 100% force trainer that has a one way training program. I could be wrong, but your post has me horrified that anyone would tell anyone else over the phone that "X" breed is going to do "Y" and the only thing to do is train "Z" way.

There are lots and lots of DS's on this forum. As I'm sure you've already searched the forum some, I bet you've not found many references to out of control aggressive dogs needing firm harsh training
The DS's and the DS mixes are great dogs. No they aren't all perfect, and many of us have had bumps along the way but you'd be hard pressed to find many that are like what the "phone trainer" described.
We're all here to help one another and there are some super people on board to help if needed.
You've already noted your Ella is sweet and as you've had her 6 months I'd of expected some issues to have been revealed if there were going to be any major concerns.

There are lots of training methods out there. Any reputable trainer would want to meet you and your dog before suggesting training methods/techniques. The training should be adapted to the dog.
Some dogs respond very well to clicker type training ( posative reinforcement, reward based training ) , some need a few corrections added in.

Does the shelter you adopted from have any local trainers they recommend ?
I'd certainly be calling around and meeting trainers and observing classes before signing up for anything.

[Dutchringgirl]

get away from that trainer !!!!! I agree with Jenny, no way a trainer can tell you the proper information with out meeting the dog. I would, though stay away from dog parks, but that is my opinion. I hate them, the dogs think it belongs to them so they will be territorial of the property and most owners are dimwits and have poorly trained dogs that will steal your dogs toy, start fights, follow you around and just be pains in the necks and the owners think its funny. Now with that being said, I will take my 10 yo Thalie to the dog park. She is nothing like that trainer said, she will not initiate a fight and will back down. She just wants to play with her ball in the water and thats it. But I will NOT take Sadie to the dog park because she wont back down and will initiate a dog fight. Thats how different this breed can be. But you must get to know your own dog first before you can make that decision.

Make a bunch of calls, sit in on thier classes, let them meet your dog. I would also just take her for walks in town and just get used to each other, let her see other dogs from afar, bring treats and get to know her in social situations.

[LyonsFamily]

Welcome to the forum,
she does look like she has something else in there other than DS. That trainer you talked to is an idiot.

I would not take your dog to a dog park, but I wouldn't take any dog there. Like Lisa said, they are full of irresponsible owners not paying attention and untrained dogs. Also, it's not that your dog is never going to back down from a fight, Odin hides from fights unless he gets cornered, but you have a large brindle shepherd that also looks like a pit bull or similar type to ordinary people and that dog is going to get blamed 100% of the time, regardless of who started the fight.

Fights happen in dog parks. You dog may be lucky and never get involved in one, but constantly having strange dogs mixed together off leash with minimal supervision will lead to some trouble.

Now as far as the prong collars go, a trainer that insists on them for every dog of a certain breed, without even meeting the dog is just a person relying on tools to get fast results. They do work and are safe if used properly and you might find yourself using one correctly someday to work on specific behaviors, but they're not an absolute must and nobody should be giving that advice, especially without meeting the dog.

I use a prong collar at times where I can't take the risk of training failing like in heavily crowded areas that we need to walk through. Since it's self teaching, putting it on him usually just serves as a reminder and he rarely, if ever, gets a correction. I also marker/clicker train and prefer to walk Odin with a martingale whenever possible and we are working to get off the prong completely. I know how to use a prong correctly, but will never use a physical correction if the dog doesn't already know the command/desired behavior, only in instances when he is leash reactive and could pose a problem. To me, it's just a tool and should only be used to fix a serious problem and should be phased out overtime.

[leih merigian]

I have to chime in about the trainer and the dog parks. I hate dog parks, period. Most of the folks there are totally clueless when it comes to dogs, the dogs are not under any kind of control or supervision, and stuff happens. Not worth the risk (and here's a hint; even a nice easy dog like yours can be made to be dog reactive or aggressive from having the experience of being attacked by other dogs, even once...and this is from your dog's perspective, too; just having a horde of strange dogs charge at yours could feel like an attack, even if not one tooth is ever laid on her pretty hide).

Any one-size-fits-all trainer doesn't work for me. As has already been said, she hasn't even met your dog (even tho she was saying what I agree to, that dog parks aren't a good thing ).

I also use a variety of tools in training, including prong and E collars, but I have a total abhorrence to choke collars. This is definitely not a motivation-based trainer.

Even tho you are new to training, please listen to your gut about your dog. If something any trainer says doesn't sound right to you, DON'T DO IT. I don't care how many people say so-and-so is a great trainer, listen to yourself and listen to your dog. You know your dog better than anyone else. Some of the biggest mistakes I've ever made with my dogs were when I did not listen to myself about my own dog. With luck, one learns that early on and deeply.

Even in a class situation...if your dog needs a break, or not to do a certain exercise that the whole class is doing, or even to do it a different way, do that, not what the class is doing. Any decent trainer will respect this choice on your part.

So, as already suggested, go watch some classes and other trainers without your dog in tow, so you can focus on what's going on around you rather than having to manage your own dog, and stay far away from this trainer.

[DSELLEGIRL]

Thanks for the advice everyone.

I'm going to stand behind you all and say that I am done with dog parks. My wife and I had our Ridgeback at the dog park and he was having a great time running around with a Husky that he has played with a few times before when a man brought in the biggest "pit bull" type dog we had ever seen. The dog was practically dragging the man. I asked the man if his dog was good with other dogs and he said that he didn't know. I told my wife that we should leave if this guy was going to let his dog off the leash. We leashed up our Ridgeback and were leaving when his dog runs over and snaps at my dog. My dog yelps and the man drags his dog off. I didn't notice any damage until later that night. My Ridgeback had a welt on his right eye and a small scrape. I'm lucky that's all it was.

On a positive note, Ella (our DS) was out at my niece's soccer game and was wonderful. She layed next to me through the entire game. During the halftime she even tolerated 3 strange kids pawing all over her and multiple strangers coming to pet her. I could not have been more pleased.

On the subject of the prong collar, my wife purchased one specifically to address pulling on the leash. Our DS immediately took to the collar. I never had to pull it once. Just the pressure she forced on herself with the first couple pulls made her heel immediately. I was amazed. I'm taking this as a sign of intelligence. ("If I pull, it hurts.")

Thanks again for all your input.

[johninny]

everyone else has said it all - but there are also all the unnecessary health risks [ other than fights ] that dog parks present. glad you have already been persuaded to stay away. find dogs that your DS likes a lot - his real friends - and find out which owners are amenable to private play-dates.
no matter what your experience so far, be careful about others' children; there is no telling how outlandishly stupid a thing some seemingly reasonable child may suddenly do to your dog - and if something happens, again its not the idiot little human that is held at fault.

[johninny]

everyone else has said it all - but there are also all the unnecessary health risks [ other than fights ] that dog parks present. glad you have already been persuaded to stay away. find dogs that your DS likes a lot - his real friends - and find out which owners are amenable to private play-dates.
no matter what your experience so far, be careful about others' children; there is no telling how outlandishly stupid a thing some seemingly reasonable child may suddenly do to your dog - and if something happens, again its not the idiot little human that is held at fault.