Dutch Shepherd Forum

Need some advice on a crate that will hold Cosmo. Started with a high-quality wire crate that he rammed through the gate, bending it out enough to get out. Moved on to a aircraft transport approved plastic crate that has 4 point locking system on the door, which held him for a couple of months. Yesterday he figured out he could chew through the only plastic vent on the crate. I still don't know how he fit through this little hole, I assume he got his head and front paws out, then he worked the crate across the house and into a baby gate that provided enough pressure for him to pop the rest of his body out. Wish I had a camera set up to see this. He is honestly lucky he didn't really hurt himself, only a couple minor scratches on his legs. Anyhow, now until I figure out something that can hold him, either me or my wife has to stay home with Cosmo because I really don't trust him yet to leave him roaming the house with no adult supervision. Any ideas? Thanks.

You might look at this one
http://www.amazon.com/Ruffmaxx-Camoufla ... +cratecamo
Other than that they do make crates out of aluminum but quite pricey... however I believe bomb proof.

You might want to get a folding wire crate. All pet store chains have them. I don't think a dog could chew through it and the latch could be reinforced but is fairly secure as is I would think. Fairly economical. It works for us but Medy does not try to break of of her kennel. I think once they break out of one they are going to keep trading to find a way with the next.

http://www.pet360.com/product/14211/sin ... 4AodZXIAQQ

how big was the wire crate you were using? [ I had a DS completely mutilate a heavy wire crate like you are suggesting.]

Texas- The first crate I used was a folding wire crate, the weak spot was the gate. It has two sliding latches that when Cosmo pushed against the gate he could bend it out enough that the latches popped out of their eyeholes. Johninny- The wire crate is 48 in long, 30 on wide, and 32 in tall. I am back to using the wire crate and I am using zip-ties to help reinforce the gate. Thought about bungee cords but I am worried if he chews one loose it could hurt him if it snaps.

Where are you located?

Honestly, working dog crates may be your only option. But also, ask yourself why he is breaking out? Is it anxiety? Boredom? Pent up energy? Addressing that need directly may help a ton. Also providing lots of VERY good alternatives can help a lot. My dogs only get to eat in their crates, and most of the time that food has to be worked for (ie stuffed frozen kong...etc.). I like to help them expend energy productively in the crate...and energy spent there is energy I don't have to deal with.

I can see how a frustrated and focused DS could pop the door which is why i suggested reinforcing the door but not sure how one could mutilate the crate without destroying his teeth? Anyway I should not have chimed in since I've not had a dog who breaks out of his crate so i don't have experience in this area. i do agree with Christie and would work hard on finding and correcting the root cause or causes of the issue.

Thanks for all the ideas, and Texas don't worry about "chiming in" as you put it, just cause your dog hasn't broken out doesn't mean you wont have any good ideas. Christie, I think it is separation anxiety, Cosmo is like a piece of Velcro to me and my wife. If I leave for 5 minutes to run to the store, he acts like I have been gone for months when I come back.

If that is the case, then he does have a high likelihood of injuring himself in his attempts to escape. Separation anxiety is inversely proportional to the space that they have - meaning the smaller the area, the more anxiety and therefore destruction they show. He might do better with an outdoor kennel run or similar in a basement.

I would still combat it with more exercise and lots of stuff to do, but if that doesn't help, I wouldn't hesitate to address the problem medically now before it gets worse. If we chemically induce positive situations, over time they become the expectation and anxiety is reduced.

Jeremy13Bravo wrote:I think it is separation anxiety...

This can be addressed with training and conditioning...it is just going to take time and patience on your part. Try to find a behaviorist in your area who can give you exercises.

Christie M wrote:I would still combat it with more exercise and lots of stuff to do, but if that doesn't help, I wouldn't hesitate to address the problem medically now before it gets worse. If we chemically induce positive situations, over time they become the expectation and anxiety is reduced.

This. And also, like Christie said earlier, feed in the crate and make the crate positive. Crate should be safe and never used for punishment...always positive, safe, and a place to relax. One thing that really truly helps, IMO, with crate issues is teaching "place" or "base." They can transition place/base (which is their area to relax) to their crate and realize that crate can equal relaxation as well...not just confinement.

I had the same issue with Harvey. The problem with the wire crates is the bottom wires are big enough for him to slip through so he'd tip it over and climb through once he moved the liner.
The aluminum crates are expensive but the best bet with a furry Houdini.

if there is severe separation anxiety, food tends to get ignored [ or more likely tossed about ] when you are absent. [ that is good technique for getting a dog to like his crate, but it may not work with severe separation anxiety where it is not about the crate, though the crate makes it worse because the constriction makes the dog feel even more powerless and hopeless --- and physically and severely constraining someone in an extreme panic tends to be counter-productive - only creating even more panic!!] I always have found, as Christie suggested, that panic/anxiety meds used over a short period [ i.e., like 4 or 5 consecutive departures/absences ] gets the ball rolling in the right direction in a situation that is otherwise intractable. the same is true for extreme skittishness in public like Sakima had. so in Sakima's case, when I made no progress by normal means, I gave him small dose of panic drug Xanax far enough in advance of going out in public [ or in your case, far enough in advance of your departure ] so that he would not experience panic in meeting and being around people, traffic, bicycles, etc. the important thing as Christie noted is to avoid that first instance of panic, so the DRUG NEEDS TO BE IN FULL EFFECT BEFORE the first negative stimulation. if NO panic is experienced, then the dog will say to himself, ''oh, that's not as bad as I thought; the world DOES NOT END when I go to the hardware store - or when Jeremy leaves me alone for awhile.'' if the drug has not fully kicked in when you are leaving then there will be a panic and that panic will still be remembered even IF the drug calms him a bit later.
speaking only from my own experience [ as I have never had advice given to me on this by anyone so I do not know ''best'' practice as Christie would know ], this use of medication is to break a tough, reinforcing cycle of fear so one can ''get through'' to the dog with more normal conditioning techniques. I have only used it when the dog's mental and physical well-being would be improved by the absence of what is really excessive fear and panic; it is like opening a window or clearing the dog's head so that he can hear you. so when Saki went out medicated, he was still very uncomfortable, but he was not in panic -- and that lack of panic meant he would listen to me for direction, realize I could and would protect him, realize there were even good things about being out and about - like treats, ear rubs, lots of praise. he got meds on 2 trips out and that was enough to turn the corner and set him on a path of continuous learning and adjustment through all the normal conditioning or ''socializing'' we do.

on a note closer to your situation, when Saki became the only dog [ for 3 months ], he would not set foot outside - in his yard - without me. he wanted to go out, I opened door, he sat and wanted to come in unless I joined him. so for several days, I would open door to go out, 1 min later to come in, 3 min later to go out, etcetra, etcetera, ad nauseum !! I would make him use different doors to come in, but he could come and go at will and I would be there to assure it. and when not windy - it was winter - left the kitchen door slightly ajar and showed him he could open it himself to come back in by nudging it [ taught by calling ''here'' through door ]. at the end, he was perfectly normal and liked staying out and just surveying his domain.

I have approached separation anxiety in dogs the same way [ and a drug to open a window or lift the fog in one extreme case - a 7-yo old dog that had been kept in isolation who did not ever want to lose his person after 7 years of loneliness ]. I go out for a few seconds, having announced ''i'm going out. I will be RIGHT BACK''. I usually treat if I am going for a few minutes, but in an extreme case, I would definitely treat each and every time. [ treating remains normal forever on departure if I am really going somewhere without a dog so that they get to the point where they wag their grateful good-byes to me! ] I do that a lot if there is a problem. no crate. just the experience of me departing; then I am back in seconds or minutes with an herb or tool or whatever in hand along with perhaps another treat. do it a lot, with no time for them to get really anxious and they eventually become immune.
for me, a VERY VERY important part of all this is talking to them. nothing I have ever done would be effective without the extensive talking. I tell them what to expect. when they know, they relax. so once they learn the language, the meaning, the expectation, and then trust in that expectation, they become very happy, comfortable, and confident dogs. I have written a couple times on the forum on my language-teaching techniques if you care to look. for me it is everything. TD learned full language and could understand a vast amount of what anyone said - making life very understandable for him and very easy for me.

A lot of great replies, thanks everyone. Johninny, we are going to have to work on the separation anxiety issues and you offer some really good ideas. He escaped again, and destroyed the wire crate in the process, but he didn't do any damage in the house. Since I am out of crates I am just going to have to trust him now I guess.

Holy hell. See how he does out, but don't give him 2 chances. If he is chewing or destroying anything treat the whole problem. More mental and physical stimulation. Lots of alternatives and better living through modern chemistry if it is needed.

Is a 10x10 kennel run out back not an option for you?

Simba also hates being confined in a crate. He broke out of our wire crate by pulling the end panel in so it would unlatch and he would slip out through the corner! Also completely destroyed the floor. We got a stronger crate that has a door that slides up and over the top. Now we keep it open in the family room and feed him in there. He was hesitant at first but now goes in to eat no problem. Also put some of my old clothes in there to smell like me. I can crate him now for short periods while we are home and he doesn't panic. I agree meds are helpful sometimes. Our vet prescribed prozac for separation anxiety just to get him over the hump while he gets used to his new home with us. So far so good with the meds. We are able to give him the run of the house while we are gone and he is good. But lots of exercise is also a huge help to keep him calm and less anxious.

Just an update......Have started leaving Cosmo out roaming the house when I leave due to the fact that I have no crates left for him. He has been perfect, noting torn up or chewed on. I know that one day I will walk in to find that he ate a couch or something, but so far so good.

he must be a very happy dog now. I am so happy to hear your up-date. aside from my new baby who is still a bit of a loose canon, I have never needed a crate to prevent damage while I am away [ 6 of 6 were good on that score with benefit of mutual discussion with the DS ]. with experiments, even the baby seems to behave when I am away and he is loose -- it seems his will to destroy is more provocation to play and challenge when I am present; with me gone, that motive is gone.