Dutch Shepherd Forum

We have 4 1/2 month old Dutch Shepard's Boomer and Sadie and we adore them. They have had all their shots, etc., been treated for giardia and coccida (not sure if spelled correctly). Anyway they have been treated and labs show they are now rid of these parasites. My concern is that Sadie has loose bowel movements and my vet said for some breeds this may be normal. I cannot believe that pudding poop is normal for any breed! I am looking for advice and hope I can find it here!

Thanks!

Marie

hi. good for you for not going along with that. you might want to ask around for a better vet.

when did treatment end? has there been any change? did they both have loose stool and now only Sadie?
first easy thing is make sure both get probiotics - liquids or capsules - to rebuild their good intestinal bacteria. cottage cheese and yogurt [ without any sweeteners ! and i use fat-free] also helpful in this regard. [ i do both added probiotics and c cheese/yogurt every day even when there are no problems, but would increase probiotics during and after treatment with antibiotics.] Platinum Performance has what they call ''bio-sponge'' which is good at helping a dog's stool normalize - to use for several weeks. in addition, consider mixing into their current food several tbsp of ground flax seed [ flax seed meal]. reduce [ dramatically if possible ] normal fats in Sadie's diet til she gets better - as little meat fat, dairy fat, and chicken skin as possible as these are NEVER good, but can exacerbate and even cause intestinal and other severe problems; foods should be lean, but make sure she continues to get the good fats - the essential fatty acids or Omegas - available in ground flax seed, fish oil [ which may worsen the loose stool], fish [ especially sardines - but without the water or oil in which canned ones are packed ], free-range birds, real game animals, GRASS-FED beef, goat, lamb

finally, make sure they are not secretly [ or not so secretly ] eating things they should not. first thought is protect your compost pile if you have one. are they getting decaying organic matter by other means? check out ''food your dogs should never eat'' on webMD.

then monitor for improvement. if the situation does not normalize after several weeks [ or show any improvement sooner] and they are not getting into forbidden stuff [ and/or if Boomer also starts having problems ], then the last negative test may have been a false negative or did not test broadly enough, thus missing an entirely different infection that has been there all along and was not susceptible to the treatment for the other parasites.

what do they currently eat as food, treats, etc?

Hi!

We have been feeding both of them Blue Mountain puppy since we brought them home. Today just got back from Petsmart and bought Blue Wilderness with the wolf pup on the front of bag. I've fed them boiled chicken thighs and white rice. They both have soft stools and I think they've been off meds for two weeks but Sadie has a more sensitive system than Boomer. I am checking around to get recommendations on vets as I'm not happy with the one my husband has used for years.

Treats are Blue Mountain banana and yogurt biscuits.

i do not know either blue mountain or blue wilderness - unless the latter is blue buffalo wilderness, which is decently rated in various rankings. but there are other foods which try to emulate the names and looks of the better brands while not being good at all. check out the lists that have been posted under feeding.
what kibble you use could make a huge difference. blue buffalo, MERRICK, ORIJEN, ARCANA are some of the products favored by knowledgeable people here, but any high-rated [100+ on the saveourshepherds.com list, for example ] is probably a good start. using lesser quality kibble will result in health problems. royal canin canned foods come in a very low fat, low moisture formula that would be good to use with your ds for a week to adjust their systems on the assumption that no more infections exist.
as an aside re kibble: one of my rescues last year [ Xander ] i was told was a very picky eater - that i should just leave his food out and eventually he would take bits of it over time. he also had very loose stool. i was sent on my way and his with the remains of his food bag - some common, low-quality kibble whose name i have now forgotten. in a couple hours, i confirmed the partial truth of what i was told. he would indeed not even sample his dinner. i assume eventually - faced with no alternative - he would take what he needed to to stay alive. i emptied his bowl and filled it with the KIWI PEAK air-dried food that i had brought for him. that food disappeared in seconds. Xander was the least picky eater i had ever known in a dog til then - grapefruit, melons, veggies, greens, supplements, etc - all were eagerly devoured by this pup. what he did not like were granules of bad bacteria with no nutritional value that were causing him intestinal discomfort to the extent that he would almost rather starve. he never showed a hint of being picky thereafter. did my best to try to slow his intake of food, but he had spent a few months starved of good nutrition.

as for treats, again i suspect Blue Mountain is trying to ride the coattails of blue buffalo.
i would drop the banana and yogurt treats and serve the real things: yogurt with fresh banana, apples, etc. [ tho as diversity, everything else quality-wise being equal, i do like in treats the idea of berries, herbs and veggies that they may not be getting otherwise.]
Holistic Health Extension ''natural dog treats'' [ www.vetschoice.com 1 800 992 9738 ] are my new main commercial treat and its 1st and main ingredient is FREE RANGE chicken --- and a 1 lb bag at pet shop was 5.99 [ relatively low compared to other acceptable products ] and the treats are already bite-sized! an exceptional treat for the money.
carrots also make good treats

i do not know either blue mountain or blue wilderness - unless the latter is blue buffalo wilderness, which is decently rated in various rankings. but there are other foods which try to emulate the names and looks of the better brands while not being good at all. check out the lists that have been posted under feeding.

what kibble you use could make a huge difference. blue buffalo, MERRICK, ORIJEN, ARCANA are some of the products favored by knowledgeable people here, but any high-rated [100+ on the saveourshepherds.com list, for example ] is probably a good start. using lesser quality kibble will result in health problems. royal canin canned foods come in a very low fat, low moisture formula that would be good to use with your ds for a week to adjust their systems on the assumption that no more infections exist

AS AN ASIDE re kibble: one of my rescues last year [ Xander ] i was told was a very picky eater - that i should just leave his food out and eventually he would take bits of it over time. he also had very loose stool. i was sent on my way and his with the remains of his food bag - some common [i.e., well-known ], low-quality kibble whose name i have now forgotten. in a couple hours, i confirmed the partial truth of what i was told. he would indeed not even sample his dinner. i assume eventually - faced with no alternative - he would take what he needed to to stay alive. i emptied his bowl and filled it with the KIWI PEAK air-dried food that i had brought for him. that food disappeared in seconds. Xander was the least picky eater i had ever known in a dog til then - grapefruit, melons, veggies, greens, supplements, etc - all were eagerly devoured by this pup. what he did not like were granules of bad bacteria with no nutritional value that were causing him intestinal discomfort to the extent that he would almost rather starve. he never showed a hint of being picky thereafter. did my best to try to slow his intake of food, but he had spent a few months starved of good nutrition.

as for treats, again i suspect Blue Mountain is trying to ride the coattails of blue buffalo.
i would drop the banana and yogurt treats and serve the real things: plain, unsweetened yogurt with fresh banana, apples, etc. [ tho as diversity, everything else quality-wise being equal, i do like in treats the idea of berries, herbs and veggies that they may not be getting otherwise.]
Holistic Health Extension ''natural dog treats'' [ http://www.vetschoice.com 1 800 992 9738 ] are my new main commercial treat and its 1st and main ingredient is FREE RANGE chicken --- and a 1 lb bag at pet shop was 5.99 [ relatively low compared to other acceptable products ] and the treats are already bite-sized! an exceptional treat for the money.
carrots also make good treats

My apologies it is Blue Buffalo, I have Blue Mountain on the brain!!!

Raw pumpkin is good for loose stool. Can be bought in a can, natural without spices etc.

Home cooked chicken and rice should help but may be it's the chicken and beef would be better. If the loose stool is food related, you need to experiment and eliminate to get to the bottom of it and what to avoid. If you have the time, home cooking is the easiest way to eliminate the culprit, rather than buying bags and more bags of food. I use a crook pot to make my own food alternative to canned food.

A second opinion from another vet might be in order too. There might be something else, not food related going on.

Thank you both very much! I have purchased plain fat free greek yogurt, fat free cottage cheese, pumpkin and bananas. We are going to check out another vet this week!

Thanks again!

Sometimes they just need a little help getting their gut back in proper shape after parasites and treatments. I always keep some powdered colostrum on hand. You can mix it with the pumpkin or yogurt and give it with their food. It has helped all 3 of my dogs (plus fosters) in all life stages.

Schlussdibusti wrote: I use a crook pot to make my own food alternative to canned food.

Please share !! I use Orajen and love it. I was using Honest Kitchen for a while but it was getting to be a pain because you had to wait. I Know, 5 minutes, but 5 minutes in a small kitchen with two kids and two dogs waiting to eat can be a bit much. I would love to check out the crock pot doggie recipes.

wouldnt dairy do more harm than good for an unhappy gut?

My vet recommended the yogurt as a natural probiotic. My Boomer will eat anything but Sadie hates pumpkin and won't eat it. Actually I tasted the pumpkin and I have to admit it does taste nasty LOL!

Would love to know if there are crock pot recipes as I would love to try them out!

Everytime you mention Sadie, I laugh, I have a Sadie too !!!

Right, yogurt for probiotics, Duh me ! I have Keiffer for probiotics in my house, not yogurt, I wonder if Keiffer is okay for dogs.

Dutchringgirl wrote: I have Keiffer for probiotics in my house, not yogurt, I wonder if Keiffer is okay for dogs.

Yes. Kefir is okay for dogs.

Dutchringgirl wrote:wouldnt dairy do more harm than good for an unhappy gut?

It depends on what's going on in the gut. Also, I prefer goat milk yogurt for my dogs. It is easier to digest and goat milk has some anti-inflammatory properties because there are about 4-5 times more oligiosaccharides in goat milk than in cow.

Stacy_R wrote:
It depends on what's going on in the gut. Also, I prefer goat milk yogurt for my dogs. It is easier to digest and goat milk has some anti-inflammatory properties because there are about 4-5 times more oligiosaccharides in goat milk than in cow.

great info. Thanks !

I've not thought of Goats milk. What is Keiffer?

Thank you again for all the advice!!!

Dutchringgirl wrote: great info. Thanks !

No problemo!!

Skidgee wrote:I've not thought of Goats milk. What is Keiffer? Thank you again for all the advice!!!

Kefir is basically a fermented milk drink (can be yogurt, too) made with cow milk, goat milk, or coconut milk. It can, however, be made with sugar water, juice, or coconut water, it just depends on which grains are used, and contains high concentrations of beneficial bacteria as well as vitamins, minerals, and amino acids.

I'll be sure to look for it at the supermarket! Thank you so much!