Dutch Shepherd Forum

We have adopted a ds who was fostered in an excellent home. He was found wandering the streets of Chicago and nursed back to health. He was very timid but gentle. He gets along well with our female gordon setter
He was fostered wit a female ds and did well with her. He has come a long way with us. He is partivularly fond of my wife, but I will do in a pinch. He has been well behaved with new people and children. He doesn't climb on furniture or chew. We can pick him up , trim his nails, touch him anywhere without any sign of displeasure. He does not play, chase balls and will notvallow our gordon to play with us or with toys. He enjoys watching tv with us. He seems to have a stong prey drive (he has killed 4 woodchucks and brought them to me). He is quite affectionate with us and we love him very much.

My daughter has a an unneutered male malinois who is about 18 months old and acts like tigger. My ds attcks him at any given chance. He clamps down on the back of the mal's neck but so far has inficted no serios damage. Understandably my daughter's family becomes quite distressed by this. If they are both leashed we can walk with them without incident if they are several feet apart. We consulted a trainer who brought one of his older males here and nothing happened. The trainer says that some dogs just don't like each other and can't be made to change, is it worth trying to improve their relationship?

you cant make anyone like anyone. It depends on what is going on. I would keep all on a leash at all times and see how it goes. If he was found on the streets, who knows what happened, maybe he was attacked by other dogs around. He sounds great with everyone else, so that is good. It could be the two males together that is the problem. I would not make him like the other dog. If they need to be around each other, he should be on a leash, but no one should act any different, he will pick up on that. He could need time to adjust to him. Have a toy around to distract him. Give him time with out forcing the Mal on him. If they dont like each other, so be it.

Thanks for the response. One of the issues is that my dog does not play so he cant be distracted that way.Toys and balls are of no interest to him. He has been around other neutered males and ignores them. When he's on a leash and not too close to the mal he's no problem.. The mal plays constantly and thinks everyone loves him. You're correct about our not knowing what he went through when he was a stray.Perhaps this will be as good as it gets.

i assume since your dog was a rescue that he IS neutered. if that is true, then, while one cannot rule out something else going on, many [ at the least a majority and maybe ''most'' applies ] neutered males take great offense to intact males and will attack for no other reason than proximity.

be aware if this is the cause that it will hold true for other unneutered males, though he may make exceptions when not closed in for small dogs or dogs that he reads as so overtly and fundamentally friendly [ think golden retriever, etc ] that he sees them as no threat despite emitting the scent of intactness [ seniors also qualify here maybe because the signal is weak or absent ].

he is basically exercising first strike in the face of a perceived threat. given enough space [ outdoors ], familiarity, and trusted protection of HIS PEOPLE, he will probably with time except that the Mal is not a threat, but i would not ever trust that in close quarters, including if the friendly young mal crowds him with play intentions. and, of course, you do not want the Mal to learn that your DS is an enemy, which he can learn in a flash - perhaps already. so, the advice already given - both parties always leashed - is good for the foreseeable future. just thought it might help to understand what the cause might be. got the sense you already suspected that might be the case.

You can't make them be friends, but you can make them be neutral to each other. Work with a trainer that will incorporate your daughter's dog into the training. You can certainly make any dog be obedient around other dogs. Jennifer Hack with Dynamic Dogs in Chicago would be my recommendation.

Until you get it resolved, you shouldn't let your DS practice bad habits and he should be kept separated from the mal unless tethered to you on a leash.

John, that is really interesting, that never would have dawned on me, the intact male vs neutered. I have always had girls. Wow. learned something new !

it would not be obvious to anyone who has not had dogs in a big, dog-crowded city [ or some place that could replicate that environment in a canine community]. in nyc where almost all dogs are neutered, unneutered males get aggressively attacked by neutered males all the time. it is frustrating and terrifying for the rare owners of intact males, many of which, of course, are perfectly friendly and happy-go-lucky dogs that have been caught in this strange parallel universe that only a canine version of a hollywood sci-fi studio could have dreamed up for them. or wait..., no... it was us humans.

I agree with everyone's above advise and I also have several questions. How old is your dog? When you say "attacks him at any given chance" does that mean even when the Mal is not moving? And "serious damage" does that mean he has punctured or otherwise maimed the Mal? Just trying to understand better. While it does sound like a case of serious aggression, and I'm certainly not saying it isn't, yet at the same time I think of my guy's friend Jakai who is always beating up on him because he is an annoyingly bouncy, pounce-y, young Tigger, and Jakai is disciplining him in her motherly way. The only reason I know she's not just being mean is because I see their interaction and see her escalating in her attempts to correct him and there is never any overt signs of aggression between these acts.

Now, if there ARE overt aggression acts and you do not feel this is just the doggie way of saying "you're being annoying", then getting a trainer to work with your dog is imperative. I would also ask the trainer about the not playing thing… that's a little abnormal in my opinion, especially if he won't let the Gordon play with you two. Just my thoughts.

I agree that a knowledgeable professional could be of assistance in helping determine what is going on. For certain, some dogs do not like some other dogs, some dogs just do not like any other dog, period, and some dogs have had experiences that have shaped their behavior around other dogs. Even owners, unknowingly, can send signals to a dog on how to react toward another dog, a person, etc. A good pro can try and help sort things out.

If you get together again, you'll likely be anticipating/prepping for something to happen, which WILL be read by your dog unfavorably, and will encourage further unwanted behavior.

Keep us posted.

I will, and thanks for evetyone's help