Dutch Shepherd Forum

LOVE this show. A friend emailed about an episode where a team wanted backing for their protection dogs. I think she wrote they did a demo, too. The team only trains/sells GSDs, Mals and DSs with $20K, $30K and $40K price points.

Did anyone see this? Did they demo or show a DS?

They demo'd a mal and I know of the company, never dealt with them. Very highly trained mal they demo'd. Pretty cool episode.

WOW, that would have been cool to watch.

I just saw late last night a commercial for Shark Tank--there was a half-second blip of the demo.

I'm guessing the Sharks were a "WHOA!" kind of impressed.

(I have to go off-topic and confess I have a crush on Robert--but he's SO not my type.)

I love the show and was really happy to see the protection dog pitch. But was anyone else surprised at the $20k price point for what sounded like basically a green dog? How they described the dogs at the $30k and $40k price points did make sense to me however - maybe it was just a case of editing the pitch for TV.

Nah that's about right, if a little high, for the price points for PPD. Level One is what is called a "visual deterrent" and the dog is trained to maintain shows of aggression on command. So like bark and holds, "watch him" barks, and sometimes rush to a barrier/person into a bark and hold. Level Two is a bite command with visual deterrents, although depending on the company some people call this a Level Three/Four. Generally Level Two is a step up where the dog will display more aggressive behavior and either bite on command or go for a bite (without command) if the person moves, or give chase if they run away (generally no bite). Level Three/Fours are the "fully" trained PPD, so they will bite on command, out on command, perform sweeps/searches, take downs (person flees and dog goes after and bites and detains), detainments (dog follows person in a bark and hold or bites to take down when the person moves).... basically duties a bodyguard would perform. PPD dogs range from $10-$90K depending on what you want, while green dogs are $800-5000 depending on amount of training put into it (non-personal protection work, once you get into foundation bite work like on a suit, sleeve, etc price goes up to about $7000).

The trick is that all PPD dogs come with obedience on and off leash to a high degree, and though Level Ones sound like what a normal DS would do without training, there is training on the type of behavior (no jumping on the windows, continued barking/barking when visual is gone, increase show of aggression as visual cue gets closer, etc) and "off switch" so when you say stop, they stop, and you let the person into the house without a problem. So basically a obedience trained dog with protection instincts honed and put on command. This is what I think most people think of when they say they want a "protection" oriented breed but that type of behavior isn't a default - as many of us can attest, our DS still bark at the thing that triggered the warning even after it's gone, or we have to go through greeting rituals when people come in. Not that it's bad but a Level One dog doesn't necessarily need that - they're trained as a switch to come on when told/visual cue and off when threat leaves or dog is told it's okay.

My only one complaint on the dog in the demo is that he was still cue'd in on the dude in clearly a suit. If I was choosey, once the threat is "disengaged" (via handler calling off dog) I want the dog to relax, look around, and while not staring down the person, keeping an eye on him. Someone could walk up behind her while dog is fixated and grab her - then dog has to choose to disengage off one threat to stop the other or continue staring down the (now neutral) threat. Basically I want the dog at ease and eyes open until the next threat, which may not come from the man in the suit. And as you can see, the intensity of the stare down unnerved some of the Sharks. But that's just my personal opinion.

Owned-By-Hendrix wrote:My only one complaint on the dog in the demo is that he was still cue'd in on the dude in clearly a suit.

I pulled up a Youtube vid that showed the intro only. The dog's focus on the decoy post-hit looked like one of "What's next, Dad?"

Owned-By-Hendrix wrote: they're trained as a switch to come on when told/visual cue and off when threat leaves or dog is told it's okay.

I think the average Joe doesn't know this--and for Joe Average who wants a protection breed, he will not reach this level of skill on his own with the dog.

That explanation makes sense. Thanks Owned-By-Hendrix!

And yeah Raven I thought the same thing - that the dog was staring as if to ask dad what's next.

If you can find the full episode you'll see it staring him down the second he is recalled. Doesn't take eyes off him. Body is tight and coiled. So much so that even the Sharks commented. If she was the main handler I would not like that type of behavior. If he was the main handler then it could be focusing on him in "what's next?" But since she was supposed to be the handler, again, that makes me pause. Also anyone else notice they tried to hide the ecollar with a scarf? That was honestly probably a production thing and not the company purposefully hiding it... Another thing that I like to see in a ppd is when heeling NOT in an attention heel - dog is focused on you and not looking around for a possible threat - so in a heel but head free to move about. Kinda defeats the purpose of a PPD of their eyes are glued upwards and not watching for someone who might approach from the side. Again, my personal opinion and views, not all PPDs are trained the same so what I like may not be what others like. Certainly looks better a dog with an attention heel if you're trying to make a big sell though.

Owned-By-Hendrix wrote:Kinda defeats the purpose of a PPD of their eyes are glued upwards and not watching for someone who might approach from the side.

Absolutely! What were they thinking?

I think the US is far too enthralled with the focused heel, anyway. PPD aside, I think it says more when a dog can take in the surroundings with all it entails and remain attentive to your cues/not react to environment. If an individual dog struggles with it past any reasonable training, well, focused heel makes sense, but then this dog wouldn't be PPD.

Raven wrote:I just saw late last night a commercial for Shark Tank--there was a half-second blip of the demo.

I'm guessing the Sharks were a "WHOA!" kind of impressed.

(I have to go off-topic and confess I have a crush on Robert--but he's SO not my type.)

I love Robert. If he wasn't twice my age, well maybe. He loves dogs too. I'm sure the Dutch gang would welcome him.