Dutch Shepherd Forum

Hello, I'm looking for some breeder recommendations. I live in Florida so the closer the better! Looking for a male active companion and eventual family companion down the road, family protection would be a plus if possible but being compatible with children and at least neutral to strangers is a must. I plan on having the pup join me on my daily runs and the occasional hike, so nothing competitive just enjoying the companionship of a beautiful and intelligent dog!

I don't understand what you are wanting, a dog that is protection orientated yet neutral with strangers and good with kids? I'd get another type of dog entirely, probably one geared more toward family. This is one of the few breeds that will test their pack rank if structure is not in place by all other pack members.

A Dutch Shepherd is not the breed for you.

Let me clarify. i just don't want the dog to be quick to aggression toward friends and family or strangers we meet while on a walk etc. but I believe after properly imprinting that shouldn't be an issue, correct me if I'm wrong. There are no kids in the family currently however I do plan on having children within the lifespan of the dog, again as long as he isn't quick to aggression there wouldn't be an issue.

Just looking for the breeders that don't exclusively breed for sport or law enforcement/military purposes, I'll discuss temperament and compatibility further with them, for sure.

I'm sure there are plenty of reputable dutchie breeders that sell pups as active companions.

Mark77 wrote:I don't understand what you are wanting, a dog that is protection orientated yet neutral with strangers and good with kids? I'd get another type of dog entirely, probably one geared more toward family. This is one of the few breeds that will test their pack rank if structure is not in place by all other pack members.

I came across a reply of yours while browsing the thread for more information, in the reply you said this, " Me, I'm more relaxed and want a well rounded dog to take anywhere and expect my dogs to be social along with being good with people." which pretty much sums up what I'm looking for. If that helps at all.

Abrestowski wrote:Let me clarify. i just don't want the dog to be quick to aggression toward friends and family or strangers we meet while on a walk etc. but I believe after properly imprinting that shouldn't be an issue, correct me if I'm wrong. There are no kids in the family currently however I do plan on having children within the lifespan of the dog, again as long as he isn't quick to aggression there wouldn't be an issue.

Just looking for the breeders that don't exclusively breed for sport or law enforcement/military purposes, I'll discuss temperament and compatibility further with them, for sure.

I'm sure there are plenty of reputable dutchie breeders that sell pups as active companions.

Dutchies aren't necessarily companion dogs as they were selectively bred for police or military use primarily but they can make a great companion to the right handler who understands the breed and understands their needs. Stuff I didn't know anything about at all when I got mine and it's a steep learning curve.

Abrestowski wrote:

Mark77 wrote:I don't understand what you are wanting, a dog that is protection orientated yet neutral with strangers and good with kids? I'd get another type of dog entirely, probably one geared more toward family. This is one of the few breeds that will test their pack rank if structure is not in place by all other pack members.

I came across a reply of yours while browsing the thread for more information, in the reply you said this, " Me, I'm more relaxed and want a well rounded dog to take anywhere and expect my dogs to be social along with being good with people." which pretty much sums up what I'm looking for. If that helps at all.

I don't have kids and I worked from home the first few years after I got my first Dutchie so he was able to spend a lot of time with me and socialized him quite a bit. Not many people have that kind of time to devote to an animal nor would they want to. My male Dutchie is not aggressive, he likes people, he likes going to new places meeting new people but he's still a KNPV lines Dutchie. He's just more social and way more laid back than many others I have seen- including my two other KNPV lines dogs. However I still wouldn't trust him around a stranger that wandered up to my house uninvited and that's certainly beyond any expectation for this kind of breed with exception for very well trained sport dogs.

I'm looking to put in the time into training a dog like I would put time into a hobby. "Schutzhund" has always interested me since I was a kid when my parents took me to a competition where we met the breeder for our GSD we had, however I'm not sure how to learn the proper training methods involved, it seems most people don't disclose information like that without some sort of compensation.

Originally I only wanted to train for obedience and just do casual nose-work just to keep the dog occupied and fulfilled without taking it to the competitive level, as I lack the knowledge to take it to that point and I'm not even sure if I can train for that on my own as it seems most videos I've seen regarding that kind of training has multiple people involved. However I'd love to learn from the proper sources, shying away from sport and competitive is something I've been doing due to lack of knowledge. Paying for classes wouldn't be an issue though, as long as I could find a reliable trainer. If sport and competitive is something that is required for dogs of this intellect and drive then I have no issue learning as much as I can, seems it would make the training and effort all that more rewarding.

I wanted to train for bite-work but I read somewhere that it makes the dog aggressive due to the stimulation of prey-drive early on and that people can sue you for using a dog for defense so it scared me off but now I've read that training bite-work can actually be beneficial in making sure they don't bite unnecessarily?? I'm the type of person that just wants to have all the knowledge I can before committing to something, so I apologize for seeming ignorant as I know I am when it comes to this.

"However I still wouldn't trust him around a stranger that wandered up to my house uninvited and that's certainly beyond any expectation for this kind of breed with exception for very well trained sport dogs."

That's great and actually what I meant when I said I'd like a dog that's protective. As far as being good with strangers I specifically had meeting people while I'm out with the dog in mind.

You can't get all the knowledge in this without bringing in a professional protection sports trainer before you select the dog. Maybe the trainer will talk some sense into you once you realize how much it will cost to train such an animal in both your time and your money. Plus they'll look at the bloodlines that you are considering to tell you if those alphabet soup letters next to the dog's names are actual protection titles or show dog titles. Then and only then- it's up to you make a serious evaluation on how far you want to go along with how much time you want to dedicate your life to working with that animal. I'd honestly say that if you don't have ten grand to light on fire right now today- I wouldn't do it. That's for the dog, vet bills, training, fences, and extra insurance you'll need to carry on your umbrella policy- and that's just year one.

Mark77 wrote:You can't get all the knowledge in this without bringing in a professional protection sports trainer before you select the dog. Maybe the trainer will talk some sense into you once you realize how much it will cost to train such an animal in both your time and your money. Plus they'll look at the bloodlines that you are considering to tell you if those alphabet soup letters next to the dog's names are actual protection titles or show dog titles. Then and only then- it's up to you make a serious evaluation on how far you want to go along with how much time you want to dedicate your life to working with that animal. I'd honestly say that if you don't have ten grand to light on fire right now today- I wouldn't do it. That's for the dog, the vet bills, the training, the fences, and extra insurance you'll need to carry on your umbrella policy- and that's just year one.

Can I provide enough training and activity to keep a dutchie happy and fulfilled on my own without having to take it to a serious competition level right off the bat? Wouldn't be an issue, just need more time to plan it out if not.

Abrestowski wrote: Can I provide enough training and activity to keep a dutchie happy and fulfilled on my own without having to take it to a serious competition level right off the bat? Wouldn't be an issue, just need more time to plan it out if not.

It's not competition level per se', it's just training and training continues for the life of the dog- especially these dogs. If you want to do competition then that requires even more effort and more training. I'd say realistically ten grand to start and then put aside another few grand a year for miscellaneous stuff that happens.


M

Alright, I'll keep everything you said in mind for the months to come before my decision. So with all that said, any breeders you could recommend?

Abrestowski wrote:Alright, I'll keep everything you said in mind for the months to come before my decision. So with all that said, any breeders you could recommend?

I'm not the one to ask that question, you should consult a protection sports dog trainer and he or she will guide you with that decision after discussing your goals.

As you can see the active members of this forum have strong opinions as to who should attempt to own a Dutch Shepherd. This is not a personal attack or really any form of elitism, but a sincere love of the breed and a feeling of a need to protect the breed. So, please consider this as you make your choice. Based on your replies so far, it looks like your level-headed enough to make the right choice.

I am currently reading this book -> Shutzhund: Theory and Training Methods by Susan Barwig and Stewart Hilliard. It is very much grounded in the philosophy of Max von Stephanitz who in 1899 founded the German Shepherd Dog Club of Germany. Yes, that's a long time ago and lots of things have changed in the world of working dog training, but the beauty of the philosophy was adjusting to the unique biology of the dog being trained.

The other less flexible philosophy geared toward protecting the German Shepherd Dog breed was the establishment of the Shutzhund titling and tying it tightly to qualifying breeding dogs. Back in those days you couldn't even show a dog in conformation unless it was titled, and you definitely couldn't get a pedigreed GSD unless the parents were titled and approved by a "Breed Master."

Many would say that popularity and greed have ruined the GSD breed. As true as that may be, there's still good GSD lines and breeders probably due to Stephanitz's philosophy.

The main reason I bring up the book is that it dedicates the first part to selecting the right dog, and it is very detailed in that aspect, so I am recommending it just for that part.

So far, your original question has gone unanswered. There may or may not be reputable breeders in Florida, but there is a breeder in Michigan (Cher Car Kennels) that has come up more than once and from more than one member. I've been told that they have DS lines that are less hard than the KNPV lines that are bred specifically for military and law enforcement. I don't have any personal experience, but you can give whatever weight is necessary to my hearsay.

I realize that Michigan is quite a distance, but to get the right dog it may be worth considering.

Good luck.

Definitely going to pick up that book. Thank you! Already checking cher car maybe they'll be able to point me toward other breeders if I can't manage to get one from them sometime in the near future.

Just to throw my in; have you considered checking out any of the dogs that are ALWAYS AVAILABLE from NADSR? I've got a lot of good experience with dogs, but there's no way in hell I'd have been ready for a DS pup. The really invaluable thing about getting an adolescent or adult dog is that you know what you're getting. A lot of these dogs have been professionally evaluated, so you'll be able to get matched with one that has a good head around kids. Also, if you're going to run with your dog (I do), the dog should be allowed to reach physical maturity before going on runs over ¼ mile. If you get a pup you'll be waiting 12-18 months to run it. If you grab up a rescue, you could get into it pretty quickly.
Also, if you're on Facebook, there's a few rescue groups you should follow. Florida is one of the few states that is inundated with Dutch shepherds and malinois that were dumped by people that thought they were bad-ass, but couldn't handle them at six months old.

TimL_168 wrote:Just to throw my in; have you considered checking out any of the dogs that are ALWAYS AVAILABLE from NADSR? I've got a lot of good experience with dogs, but there's no way in hell I'd have been ready for a DS pup. The really invaluable thing about getting an adolescent or adult dog is that you know what you're getting. A lot of these dogs have been professionally evaluated, so you'll be able to get matched with one that has a good head around kids. Also, if you're going to run with your dog (I do), the dog should be allowed to reach physical maturity before going on runs over ¼ mile. If you get a pup you'll be waiting 12-18 months to run it. If you grab up a rescue, you could get into it pretty quickly.
Also, if you're on Facebook, there's a few rescue groups you should follow. Florida is one of the few states that is inundated with Dutch shepherds and malinois that were dumped by people that thought they were bad-ass, but couldn't handle them at six months old.

Honestly, I didn't even think of that for some reason. Sounds great actually and I'm definitely going to look into it.

Abrestowski wrote:Let me clarify. i just don't want the dog to be quick to aggression toward friends and family or strangers we meet while on a walk etc. but I believe after properly imprinting that shouldn't be an issue, correct me if I'm wrong. There are no kids in the family currently however I do plan on having children within the lifespan of the dog, again as long as he isn't quick to aggression there wouldn't be an issue.

Just looking for the breeders that don't exclusively breed for sport or law enforcement/military purposes, I'll discuss temperament and compatibility further with them, for sure.

I'm sure there are plenty of reputable dutchie breeders that sell pups as active companions.

I dont think a DS is for you. They can be very quick to react. They are not family dogs either. There are plenty of breeds that would suit your needs.

They are protection dogs, so they need to be quick to react. They are meant for heavy seriouse work, police, drug ect. If a perp were to come around the corner, the dogs NEEDS to react quick, so if on a walk and someone comes around a corner they will react.

This breed is not for you.

I would say find a different breed

Look into a purebred, FCI lineage dog, who is bred from old style farm & herding animals. There are not many in the US who are breeding but there are some available.

Again, I know I sound like a broken record, but we got our DS, pure bred, from Aachen Dutch Shepherds in OK, and at 10 months, he is the greatest family dog. The 1st question they asked us is why we wanted a DS and what did we want it for. When we said a family pet, we were told we could only choose from one litter. They are also big in supplying law enforcement dogs all over the country. We just sent her a pic of Dutch and she loves to hear how they are doing. right now she is training a DS for a vet with PTSD. The dog is 18 weeks old and she is training it to get used to loud sounds, such as lawnmowers, cars and takes it into the city to make it focus on commands with the hustle and noise going on. We found them to be very dedicated to the breed. We work with a trainer to focus on the everyday stuff and also to learn how to engage his mind, making them focus and think tires them out more than physical activity. We also attend a group class once a week to get him used to being around other dogs. He is not aggressive towards the other dogs or people. Maybe its because we have an 8 year old Chihuahua he grew up with, but he is the most loveable dog in the world to everyone he has met so far. I hope it stays this way. That's why I have a hard time understanding why a lot of folks say no, never a family pet. We are relatively new to the board and we looked at all the beautiful pics. There are so many beautiful DS's and info on this board, just wanted to thank Michael for a great and fun resource.