Dutch Shepherd Forum

In my internet searches I have noticed some differences in the DS from dog to dog and wonder what I'm looking at. Some of the dogs seem to have the slender head and muzzle and a slender sleek looking build. Others seem to have a wider skull slighly shorter snout and a really broad pronounced chest. I admit that I am not very familiar with understanding bloodlines and such but I am just wondering if this is occurring b/c breeders are purposely achieving these looks.

Iron Mike wrote:In my internet searches I have noticed some differences in the DS from dog to dog and wonder what I'm looking at. Some of the dogs seem to have the slender head and muzzle and a slender sleek looking build. Others seem to have a wider skull slighly shorter snout and a really broad pronounced chest. I admit that I am not very familiar with understanding bloodlines and such but I am just wondering if this is occurring b/c breeders are purposely achieving these looks.

I think the short answer is "yes." However, it gets fairly complicated pretty quickly, and I am no genetics expert (not even a wannabe expert).

Keep in mind that there are two major sources; KNPV and FCI. KNPV lines in general are going to be your strong working lines, while the FCI lines equate more to AKC show lines here. The FCI would most likely breed more for looks than any KNPV-lines breeder. Still, even in the working lines, you'll find variations in physical type, and breeders will tend to breed according to their personal preferences. So, not every KNPV dog will have a wide head and huge chest, but they're much more likely in the KNPV lines.

That should do ya until someone who is truly versed in this stuff comes along...

It's not just about breeding for looks, some breed for temperament as a priority and could care less if the chosen dog's head looks a little pointy.

As a puppy buyer you need to decide if either of those types bothers you and if you care. Then look appropriately.

I really don't care too much about appearance as much as I care about health and stamina. I want a dog with a ball drive that would scare or annoy most anyone. Bite work really isn't my forte but it would be a nice new venture. Though I have assisted in training some aggressive mals, I admit that Im fairly inexperienced with apprehension and hard mouth dogs.

Iron Mike wrote:I really don't care too much about appearance as much as I care about health and stamina. I want a dog with a ball drive that would scare or annoy most anyone.

Looks alone will scare anyone, Thalie is a sweet heart, but she scares everyone who dosnt have a clue what she is, she has been called a wolf and have backed people into a corner by just looking at them ( that wasnt her intention though, she was just saying Hi). I have had someone run down the street by just having her poke her head out of my truck, I was approched by a guy in a van (yeah, wierd) while walking my kids and he asked if he could give my dog a treat, I said "sure if you want your hand taken off", he sped off really fast. Ive taken her to bronx NY, and the "seas parted". Thalie does have years of bite work, but even if you dont go that route, they are good to have around on looks alone for safety.

I loved the recaps of those experiences walking the striped beast. I totally could see a van spinning away with tire smoke and a panic faced driver. Or people diving away on the sidewalk in business suits. Thalie sounds like quite the visual deterent.

dutchringdog wrote: but even if you dont go that route, they are good to have around on looks alone for safety.

I worked from home yesterday and I kept getting people knocking on my door ... Although I don't live in a bad neighborhood, I'm not too far from some sketchy areas. The front door has a glass storm door and a small glass window up high on the inner wooden door.

With a step down from the house to the porch the people knocking on the door don't realize I'm looking out at them from inside..

Anyway, more often than not I let Cino around the wooden door as I reach out to grab the handle of the storm door. ...that is if I haven't already turned them away without opening the door.

Cino is small by DS standards but when that brindle/black dog comes around the door and the only thing between him and the person wanting to come in is a thin storm door ... well ... it does sometimes bring a smile to my face.

..

Last evening someone I had met a while back saw Cino in the yard and wanted to meet him. I grabbed Cino by the collar and opened the gate for them to come in. The guy is dog savvy, but didn't know what a Dutch Shepherd was and wanted to meet one. Even with me holding Cino he was hesitant to come in the yard. I had to convince him that once he was in the fence Cino would do any more than love on him.

He wouldn't stop talking about what good guard dog Cino is ... but he's never been trained for it. Other than simple Schutzhund training when he was a puppy.

That "presence" that these dogs have is what brought me here to learn so that I could get a little knowledge before I purchase. I have only seen one DS in person. There were more than sixty dogs there mostly gsd and mals. Only one Dutch but I couldn't take my eyes off of the dog. I was intimidated but so interested that I spent an entire night watching videos of them. Everywhere that dog went all eyes were front and center like he was the marine corps drill instructor in the room. That was all it took; boom HOOKED!!!!

Piggy-backing on others' posts, one of my favorite "presence of the DS" stories was with my last Dutch. I used to take her to parking lots when I first adopted her to 1) expose her to different sights, smells, sounds, activity, etc. and observe her reactions; 2) later, to work with her in the presence of these distractions.

Anyway, we were standing on the sidewalk of a strip mall in front of an vacant store--away from people, just hangin' at the spot for a couple minutes. Guy remarked on her looks and asked what kind of dog. I answered. Then he said, "I bet no one bothers you when she's around." I replied, "Well, you're the one standing about 20-feet away."

Not that women don't comment, but the Dutch do seem to mesmerize men, at least in my experience. Working in parking lots (boy, that sounds questionable!)...guys walking to their cars or just driving by like to comment.

I will add my 2 cents to this. The DS is all about presence and I agree, men are drawn to them and fearful at the same time. Maybe that's why I like the breed...they remind me of myself .

Our current house is in the mountains in a neighborhood full of sketchy people (that's why we bought our ranch to move to, if we can ever get it remodeled). I was sitting on the deck two weeks ago, repotting some plants when Chaos suddenly stood up and started growing that low, menacing, "I'm not effing around" growl. When I looked up a strange man was standing at the top of my driveway. I stood up and he looked surprised, I don't think he knew I was there. He asked for the former owner by name. I told him he didn't live here anymore and walked up to the driveway to talk to him because I didn't want him close enough to see in the windows. Chaos waited on the deck, starring and growling. She looked impressive. I didn't ask her for that, they are just a very intuitive breed. The guy kept nervously glancing at her even though she never moved a muscle. I told him she's a DS, highly trained in protection work (she's not but it certainly looked like it.) When I called her over she didn't trot up to him, she came straight to me and sat next to me but her eyes never left him. He left shortly thereafter and I will rest easy knowing he will never come back if he thinks Chaos is there.

And then we played squeeky toy for a while with the neighbor kids. That's the whole reason I got a DS. They know their role and are very versatile within it. Though they are certainly not for everyone, they are the perfect dog for my family and lifestyle. As a bonus, Chaos also hunts gophers and wood rats.

They really are an amazing breed. I can do a full on bite work session with thalie, then come home and she will snuggle with my kids. The stories are great! It is kind of fun to watch the expressions on peoples faces when they see the dog. Another story I love to tell, I had a huge GSD and a Rot/pit mix. I had the same set up with a glass storm door and a wood door, some one came knocking and I opened the door enought to let two big black heads out, one on top of the other, well,, he looked down and I thought his eyes were going to come out of his head, the GS had a very deep low growl going and I said " how can I help you?" Well, the conversation didnt last very long.

Iron Mike wrote:I really don't care too much about appearance as much as I care about health and stamina. I want a dog with a ball drive that would scare or annoy most anyone. Bite work really isn't my forte but it would be a nice new venture. Though I have assisted in training some aggressive mals, I admit that Im fairly inexperienced with apprehension and hard mouth dogs.

careful what you ask for on that ball drive thing lol. If you choose a performance bred DS he will be high drive in all areas

I have heard discussion that the KNPV lines may take a bit longer to mature while FCI lines mature faster younger... I personally have not experienced this and would be something for the more experienced breeders to comment on.

Gwen has an on/off switch but sometimes the operator has fuzz brain ...

Kristie Elliott wrote:I have heard discussion that the KNPV lines may take a bit longer to mature while FCI lines mature faster younger... I personally have not experienced this and would be something for the more experienced breeders to comment on.

Gwen has an on/off switch but sometimes the operator has fuzz brain ...

I don't agree, FCI DS take very long to mature too... Some never grow up No, seriously, they need/take their time.

Marjolein wrote:

Kristie Elliott wrote:I have heard discussion that the KNPV lines may take a bit longer to mature while FCI lines mature faster younger... I personally have not experienced this and would be something for the more experienced breeders to comment on.

Gwen has an on/off switch but sometimes the operator has fuzz brain ...

I don't agree, FCI DS take very long to mature too... Some never grow up No, seriously, they need/take their time.

Maybe I got it backwards, while I was listening to the discussion?? I don't suppose it really makes much difference when it comes down to it, unless I have need to have a faster maturing pup...

Even at not full-size, Klein has deterred people! I will agree, too, that he seems to mesmerize men more than women. Women like him, but men seem to have this immediate respect for him. He just commands the room wherever he is. I'd be lying if I said I didn't like it! I get goose bumps when I think about how much this will amplify with another 20 pounds or so on him!

Yeah ! isnt it awesome how people look at them!! I love it too! Thalie is a nice size, not huge, but when people see her they always "look" . She is so sweet but knowing she would go after someone is nice to know. I feel so safe at night. She has a great on/off switch, its so great.

How about put a picture of Klein on your avatar? Its fun to see the dogs when reading someones post