Dutch Shepherd Forum

Yesterday, after jujitsu class, I was out in the yard working retrieves and OB with En when my teenager decided to try to sneak up on me to attempt a playful choke. En was already on her way back, maybe 25 yards away when she saw him snaking up behind me. I saw her posture change. The frisbee fell from her mouth, and she set into a sprint. I had already heard the kid...he's about a head taller than me and not stealthy at all. I was in the middle of dropping him in front of me when En got there. Her teeth hit his butt. Not a serious bite, but it was there. Then she drove him back. After he had backed up about ten feet, she ran back to me and centered up, barking AT him non stop and surging forward when he angrily advanced.
I was somewhat shocked. I wanted to encourage the reaction, but not on that person, so I had the kid calm down, walk a few feet away and call her. She ran to him, excited and mouthy, but was obedient. They're going to be spending a bunch more time together after that.
Again, I'm not happy about the person involved, but her actions were the antithesis of what I expected. I have heard so much about untrained dogs fleeing or even attacking their owners. I'm assuming En's genetics have a lot to do with it. I'm also wondering how much her protectiveness results from all the work we do together.
En works a LOT with my younger kid. After a rough first week or so, she's really come to enjoy being with him. She brings toys to him, cuddles, he helps place hides for nosework, I have her search & track for him, and he handles her when tracking me. The teenager really just takes the dogs out a couple times a day. Didn't do much with them. I'll be putting them together a lot more now.

My husbands Lab did a similar thing years ago. He was a Bachelor then and living with a roommate. The roommate was also involved with the labs care on a daily basis. The dog had great temperament. One day the roommate was roughhousing with my husband's ex stepson who was a little boy at the time. When the lab saw that, he went into protective mode against the roommate. Maybe the dogs just see an attack and want to protect whoever is being threatened.

this is totally in char and you should have expected this. this is where trouble starts when a protection dog is not up to par yet on training and a family member plays. the dog does not know yet play vs real. even now at 15 and 8 , when my kids play they watch but they know now.

be careful , and dont let the kids do that, it can go wrong,

sorry so blunt, im typing with one hand

Dutchringgirl wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:47 pm this is totally in char and you should have expected this. this is where trouble starts when a protection dog is not up to par yet on training and a family member plays. the dog does not know yet play vs real. even now at 15 and 8 , when my kids play they watch but they know now.

be careful , and dont let the kids do that, it can go wrong,

sorry so blunt, im typing with one hand

No apologies needed! I fully recognize the potential, and I was not COMPLETELY surprised at her reaction. My surprise was more at her follow through. My teenager has very little interaction with her. She does follow his direction, but there's not enough practice on both their parts. Luckily, he's clear headed enough to know to put her up when we went inside to practice without me having to say anything.
One of the reasons I chose this breed is for natural protective nature. I fully recognize the dangers of having an untrained dog. I likened training to the safety on a firearm, and I still do. The honest truth is that I spend almost all our time on trailing and general OB& exposure. If I had the time and the $4,000 that the local club wants, I'd go through the protection training.

To be clear- my head is not in the sand. I successfully turned around the dog's opinion of my youngest, and they work together excellently now. En obeys surprisingly well to the entire family. I was expecting a dog that would never be anything but solely mine.

did not mean to imply your head is in the sand... sorry if it came across that way.

Dutchringgirl wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:09 pm did not mean to imply your head is in the sand... sorry if it came across that way.

Not at all. Just wanted to make sure no one thinks i think this is "cute".

TimL_168 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:27 pm

Dutchringgirl wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:09 pm did not mean to imply your head is in the sand... sorry if it came across that way.

Not at all. Just wanted to make sure no one thinks i think this is "cute".

good idea, this is not the breed to plat those games with

This is fascinating. I have always wondered how the dog would react to a dangerous situation in real life. You can never really say for sure, especially if you dont train in protection- except through small and accidental glimpses such as this. Im interested in trying to mimic similar situations somehow in a controlled environment just to explore the dogs reactions so that I can be prepared and see what needs to be trained; for better or worse. Cleo starts barking whenever anyone enters the house, but so far she has never displayed aggression of any kind (shes also less than 6 mo though).

zxs107020 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:20 pm This is fascinating. I have always wondered how the dog would react to a dangerous situation in real life. You can never really say for sure, especially if you dont train in protection- except through small and accidental glimpses such as this. Im interested in trying to mimic similar situations somehow in a controlled environment just to explore the dogs reactions so that I can be prepared and see what needs to be trained; for better or worse. Cleo starts barking whenever anyone enters the house, but so far she has never displayed aggression of any kind (shes also less than 6 mo though).

this is not advisable. work with a protection sport trainer and you and your dog will learn how to act in situations. recreating a situation with out trained decoys and handlers is looking for trouble

Dutchringgirl wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:09 pmthis is not advisable. work with a protection sport trainer and you and your dog will learn how to act in situations. recreating a situation with out trained decoys and handlers is looking for trouble

I strongly agree! If I were to take this any father, it'd HAVE to be with someone experienced that can make sure I'm not seeing any bad and dangerous precedents with the dog.

an untrained protection dog/handler is an attack waiting to happen,

Dutchringgirl wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:38 pm this is not advisable. work with a protection sport trainer and you and your dog will learn how to act in situations. recreating a situation with out trained decoys and handlers is looking for trouble

lol - That is exactly what I meant by "in a controlled environment" (ie- an environment where the dog cant "go wrong" and no one can get hurt). Also, an untrained protection dog/handler is an accident waiting to happen- I agree. Thats not the same thing as creating a situation to see how a non-protection animal reacts though. In fact, I think it is important because it can help prevent accidental bites/attacks. For example, if you know your dog may be skittish around strangers (by having mimicked the situation)- its easy to slap on a "do not pet" sticker and maintain your distance. This is much better than finding out your dog doesnt like strangers when they decide to bite someone in public who comes in too quick for a pet.

AGREE. this is why training is so important because you learn all of these things, how your dog reacts, how you react, how your dog reacts to you . bad things csn still happen , decoys break things, but at least its someone who knows the risk he is taking.

this is what bugs me about humans though.. not all, but most allow people to come up to pet the dog, and they don't know how to handle it. not just shepherds either

Lisa- not long after I got En, when I was still learning her ins and outs, I took her to the reservoir with the family. There was some crazy lady with a spastic dog running literally 50 yards away from her in giant circles. He was a sweet, happy dog, doing happy dog things...under zero control from it's owner. En did pretty well considering what I had been told about her personality. But, when the happy little hound got too close, she hit the end of her leash and went into full berserker mode. Now...hers the part that gets me: the lady didn't see what the big deal was. My wife screamed at her "lady! Your dog was almost LITERALLY TORN TO PIECES! PUT HIM ON A LEASH!. the lady never did. She wandered off after a while saying it was no big deal. I was holding En down in full mount for at last a couple minutes before I had enough space to get her up and walk far away.

i had the exact thing happen to me after i got Sadie. took Sadie and thalie to the park to let them swim. stayed waaaaay away from everyone. a loose dog came up to us and Sadie went after it, luckily i had sadie on a prong. i yelled at the lady but i just got a look like I'm the dumb one.