Dutch Shepherd Forum

Posted: **Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:15 pm**

So, I have an important question that once again relates to the issue of dog training. The trainer told me something that my instincts said was wrong. I wanted to get the opinion of other's before making a decision on the matter.

How do you feed your dogs? Regardless of wether it is raw or kibble or wet. Do you feed exclusively through training? Or does your dog get regular meals?

I was feeding my dog, once daily at night. The trainer told me I should be feeding her exclusively by hand, through training. In Denise Frenzie's book "Train the Dog in Front of You" she says that with dogs that have a high enough working drive and bond with their master (my dog does, I believe)- this is unnecessary. In fact, she says it can dampen the dog's drive if you feed this way. If we had to work for every morsel of food we ate, we would become pretty resentful too...so it makes sense. Moreover, I feel like this method has also slowed down my dogs growth

.

So anyway, what are ya'lls thoughts and opinions on the subject?

Posted: **Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:53 pm**

well, for me , I just fed, even during heavy ring training years. You are not going into heavy competition so I would not worry about it. For me, with three, I just did not want any food aggression,. I would hand feed and play in the food while they eat just to get them used to you or a human in the food so they don't get aggressive about it. Sit by them while they eat, put yoru hand in the bowl. take it away, then give it back.

Mine eat twice and do get snacks during the day

Posted: **Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:06 pm**

Dutchringgirl wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:53 pm well, for me , I just fed, even during heavy ring training years. You are not going into heavy competition so I would not worry about it. For me, with three, I just did not want any food aggression,. I would hand feed and play in the food while they eat just to get them used to you or a human in the food so they don't get aggressive about it. Sit by them while they eat, put yoru hand in the bowl. take it away, then give it back.

Mine eat twice and do get snacks during the day

Thanks, thats good to know- Im pretty sure that I will go back to feeding her with the bowl being as I have noticed no positive consequences yet as a result of feeding her through work alone...Im not trying to compare dogs to humans but it still just doesnt feel "right".

Posted: **Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:30 pm**

the guys that were heavy into the ring and the dog was only a work item, fed for work. that's for them, not me.

Posted: **Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:48 am**

I've always fed my dogs from hand when I first get them. After a while, I'll go to a bowl, but I always go back to feeding completely by hand during obedience every once in a while. I only do it in basic OB to avoid bloat.
En guarded the living hell out of her food bowl when I got her. She didn't get her bowl back until she could sit with food in between her and Aurora.

Posted: **Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:42 am**

We feed in an upside down dog bowl to slow him down, started with the puppy Kong full but always in the crate. All treats get taken, moved, etc to prevent guarding. We slow feed to prevent bloat but I've never hand fed just because... I mean he gets teo meals totaling up to 4 cups a day now.... (9 am and 8 pm). That's crazy! Are we feeding wrong?

Posted: **Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:47 am**

I know this is a relatively serious thread, but I had to make a funny:

zxs107020 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:15 pm If we had to work for every morsel of food we ate, we would become pretty resentful too

We don't work for our food?

Posted: **Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:45 pm**

I see this so often and honestly I think it's stupid!!! Let the damn dog eat! What a shit life having to do something for ever meal! This is like people that walk the dog and expect it to heel the whole walk! Let the dog explore sniff walk around! Same here let the dog eat! My dogs eat in their crates or in Yodas case In the pen in the yard... I track and use food for tracking and still feed regularly everyday! Imho let the dog eat and enjoy his food and not be bothered! Bothering them too much can cause food aggression issue or make your dog not eat! That every meal from the hand shit is stupid!!!! Give them a bowl and let them eat!

Posted: **Fri Aug 18, 2017 1:40 pm**

Tell us how you really feel, Steve

Posted: **Fri Aug 18, 2017 1:43 pm**

DaHawaiianDS wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:42 am We feed in an upside down dog bowl to slow him down, started with the puppy Kong full but always in the crate. All treats get taken, moved, etc to prevent guarding. We slow feed to prevent bloat but I've never hand fed just because... I mean he gets teo meals totaling up to 4 cups a day now.... (9 am and 8 pm). That's crazy! Are we feeding wrong?

I have a slow feeder for the hound because of bloat too. I had a slow feeder for Sadie but it made her so mad she would flip it and food went every where LOL.

two meals is fine, if its a lot I like three. I only like the hand feeding or putting hand in the bowl just so they get used to humans around the food, but its not necessary or to do for a long time. The time you feed is up to you and your schedule.

Posted: **Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:13 pm**

We should get a real slow feeder because the XL upside-down metal dog bowl is getting too easy, but they all look light and plastic. He eats like a hungry hippo and I'm sure he'll send it and all of the contents flying too! Have you ever found one that was harder to flip?

Posted: **Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:01 pm**

Im really glad that we all same to be on the same page here. Too many people to quote so I will just try to go through the comments.

@TimL_168: I agree. When I first got Cleo, I fed her entirely by hand for the first week or two so that we could bond and create a good foundation for obedience. Maybe once in a while I will return to this method if there are kinks in training that need to be worked out- but it seems silly as a blanket policy.

@DaHawaiianDS: Personally, I dont think youre doing anything wrong. In fact slowing down the food eating is probably a good idea- these dogs practically inhale it, lol.

@centrop67: Tousche, lol, but especially as "children" no we do not.

@Steve Gossmeyer: Im really glad you agree. It seems stupid to me too. The dog trainers were under the impression that it increases their dogs drives, but what I saw was animals that were just frantic and demanding. It seems excessive that their dogs are so crazy they have to wear gloves during training to prevent hand injuries. This was something that the trainers were "bragging" about.

Posted: **Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:14 pm**

personally I think the trainers use food for work because it sounds cool. Pffft and yes, they do like to bragg,. but it was only one trainer in my area, he was a good trainer but there was a lot of training ideas he had that I just left behind.

for the slow feeder, you may have to try a few to see what works. I don't use one with Sadie anymore, mostly for the basset since they are prone to bloat. you could always split up the food and don't give water with food.

Posted: **Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:51 pm**

zxs107020 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:01 pm Im really glad that we all same to be on the same page here. Too many people to quote so I will just try to go through the comments.

@TimL_168: I agree. When I first got Cleo, I fed her entirely by hand for the first week or two so that we could bond and create a good foundation for obedience. Maybe once in a while I will return to this method if there are kinks in training that need to be worked out- but it seems silly as a blanket policy.

@DaHawaiianDS: Personally, I dont think youre doing anything wrong. In fact slowing down the food eating is probably a good idea- these dogs practically inhale it, lol.

@centrop67: Tousche, lol, but especially as "children" no we do not.

@Steve Gossmeyer: Im really glad you agree. It seems stupid to me too. The dog trainers were under the impression that it increases their dogs drives, but what I saw was animals that were just frantic and demanding. It seems excessive that their dogs are so crazy they have to wear gloves during training to prevent hand injuries. This was something that the trainers were "bragging" about.

I do all my foundation with food from hand or on the track but they still receive their meals... I switch to a ball on a rope for a reward as soon as they show me they know the behavior... but I'm speaking from a competition aspect! I know people that their dogs don't eat unless it's from their hand and to me that's just dumb... let the dog enjoy its meal in peace!

Posted: **Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:52 pm**

centrop67 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2017 1:40 pm Tell us how you really feel, Steve

Haha I'm very pationate about training and when something just seems stupid I have no problem saying so! Lol

Posted: **Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:58 pm**

Steve Gossmeyer wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:51 pm I do all my foundation with food from hand or on the track but they still receive their meals... I switch to a ball on a rope for a reward as soon as they show me they know the behavior... but I'm speaking from a competition aspect! I know people that their dogs don't eat unless it's from their hand and to me that's just dumb... let the dog enjoy its meal in peace!

Yea, the second way is what the trainers told me to do (who compete in IPO). Dont get me wrong, the first week I had the dog- I fed her completely by hand. But that was like a cup a day, and only to establish a good bond and strong obedience foundation. These trainers had me feeding her three cups of food a day entirely by hand! It seemed ridiculous to me, which is why I posted on the forum. LOL- feeding her that way was hard enough for me, so Im sure she didnt much appreciate it either: it had no effect on her obedience or behavior whatsoever.

Now, I will be letting her eat her meal- BUT she will have to find it first, hehehehe....

Posted: **Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:14 am**

zxs107020 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:58 pm
Steve Gossmeyer wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:51 pm I do all my foundation with food from hand or on the track but they still receive their meals... I switch to a ball on a rope for a reward as soon as they show me they know the behavior... but I'm speaking from a competition aspect! I know people that their dogs don't eat unless it's from their hand and to me that's just dumb... let the dog enjoy its meal in peace!
Yea, the second way is what the trainers told me to do (who compete in IPO). Dont get me wrong, the first week I had the dog- I fed her completely by hand. But that was like a cup a day, and only to establish a good bond and strong obedience foundation. These trainers had me feeding her three cups of food a day entirely by hand! It seemed ridiculous to me, which is why I posted on the forum. LOL- feeding her that way was hard enough for me, so Im sure she didnt much appreciate it either: it had no effect on her obedience or behavior whatsoever.

Now, I will be letting her eat her meal- BUT she will have to find it first, hehehehe....

It seems like your girl is a month and ten days older than Kapena but she's getting a cup less food. We bumped our amt up after Steve noticed him looking too thin and I did a little research. Seems like he sprouts overnight sometimes. While he's filled out a bit and since giving him the extra cup a day seems to have jumped 20% in size he is still very lean. Take a good look at my monster. Is he on better track now you think, or growing too fast?

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Posted: **Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:25 am**

some will just be lean. Thalie i always an easy keeper and maintained a good weight, SADIE is a bit tougher. she is very lean, as is her lineage. She always looks thinner. I have her on a good amount but she stresses it off. plus with her bad hips i would rather have her thinner.

you want to see the last rib

Posted: **Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:28 am**

DaHawaiianDS wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:14 am It seems like your girl is a month and ten days older than Kapena but she's getting a cup less food. We bumped our amt up after Steve noticed him looking too thin and I did a little research. Seems like he sprouts overnight sometimes. While he's filled out a bit and since giving him the extra cup a day seems to have jumped 20% in size he is still very lean. Take a good look at my monster. Is he on better track now you think, or growing too fast?

Wow, thats a big boy! I couldnt tell you if hes growing too fast or not, but I will say a couple things. Cleo gets 3 cups a day of Orijen Puppy Large. There are a couple things to note about this, its a large breed formula thats "specifically formulated" to prevent the dogs from growing too fast. This is to prevent dysplasia from happening in the hips or elbows (dysplasia happens because the bones grow too fast and pop out of the joints basicallt). Its also super high in protein (40%). This could be why the actual amount of feeding is smaller. Cleo is 35 pounds at 6 months. Shes also a girl though, and they are smaller than the boys. So, 3 cups is the recommended amount for a dog that will grow to be 66 lbs and currently weights 45....based on this I actually feed Cleo a little extra....not sure what kind of food you feed yours, that could be the difference though.

Your boy is definitely a handsome monster- so maybe its me who needs to be feeding more!

Posted: **Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:40 am**

We are on Fromm's Large breed puppy gold. It's also AAFCO certified and has the vitamins and nutrients I'm looking for. I've been researching foods that help prevent HD, etc and thought that was the best way to go. Yes, the higher protein of that food is likely why it's less. My senior Doxie gets grain free (severe allergies) and his serving size dropped significantly then too. I have read high protein is good but too high makes them put on weight too fast and cause joint and HD also. So imagine my surprise when he hulked out anyways! Lol

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