Dutch Shepherd Forum

I was hoping to get some advice.

Sugar has a fear of large and/or fast moving things coming towards her. Add sound into the equation and it amplifies her fear.

If something or someone comes towards her that she doesn't know, sometimes she will be fine with it, but other times she wants to (or does) run. It could be another dog, a person wanting to pet her, and especially the vacuum cleaner.

When she was a puppy, we were at the park one day, she was off leash, and a young (much larger) Standard Poodle appeared (also off leash) and came running up to her. It startled her and she ran. It took off after her, full of energy and oblivious to her fear. It took a while for the owner to get control of her over excited dog but ever since then, when Sugar sees an unknown dog larger then her, she gets nervous. She is usually fine with dogs the same size or smaller then her. Unless they are really excited. She doesn't like that either.

Things I do with her now are:

If we are going to cross paths with an unknown larger dog I will try to put her on her leash if she isn't already, so she can't run. I let them say hello to each other. If the other dog seems unfriendly, we will walk on by and ignore it. I won't always get her on her leash before the dogs meet up and sometimes she will stand her ground, or even be totally fine, but sometimes she will still run or do a big avoidance circle away from it. Of course it depends on the other dog, but they are usually pretty friendly if they are off their leash and once she realizes the other dog means no harm, she is good and off they play.

If someone wants to pet her, and I see that Sugar is nervous, I tell them to stop moving and let her go to them instead of them going to her. This is very difficult for children to do. They tend to be impatient and loud and don't follow directions very well. But if they do, she will curiously approach them. But of course it doesn't help when they don't follow these directions!

As soon as I pull out the vacuum, she goes to the opposite end of the room. I will vacuum away from her and when I'm done I will tell her to check it out. She will as long as it is off and not moving. Some movement of the vacuum she has tolerated while it is off but she is still pretty afraid of the whole vacuuming thing. She will eat food off of it if its not on. She is much better now, as she used to run to the farthest end of the house that she could and I would find her there shaking. Poor thing!! Now when I vacuum, she will run out of the room and watch me from the doorway. As long as I'm not moving towards her, she will watch. Move towards her with it and she backs up and will even start shaking.

Bottom line is Sugar is very curious and friendly, so as long as nothing is coming towards her fast or loud, she has no problem approaching it in a friendly manner. I really want her to be confident so she doesn't have this fear. I mean, some fear is OK because there are somethings to be afraid of, but not always. Keeping her on a leash to prevent the running has helped, but the problem is still there. Any ideas out there for me on this specific problem?

Thanks!

For the noise issue.... Sadie has noise issues... What I have done over time is expose her to noises gradually. When she was a pup and I ran the vaccuum she would run to the farthest corner and hide, of course that was behind my computer and desk. When I mowed the lawn, I have a 53" commercial mower, she would try to jump out of the fenced back yard, I would have to put her up. Im sure you have heard this before.... I would leave the vaccuum out and just ignore the fact it was there, I would turn the kitchen fan on and just leave it going for a bit, turn the vacuum on and let it just run and act like nothing is going on. It takes time and you have to act like its nothing at all. Just the other day I blew leaves, I have a gas blower, and she didnt like it but was roaming around the yard , one eye on me and the other for mice, that was a good sign. Noises, just make them and let her see they are nothing.

Now the coming at her issue, I know there are more experienced people on here for that one. My thoughts would be to act like nothing is going on. Tell people and children to let Sugar come to her, keep their hands low and squat so they are at her level. I had a pit/rott mix, sweet as pie, ONLY if you let her sniff you first, then she would love you for ever, If you just came at her, you will get nipped and she will never ever like you. Im not sure about putting the leash on every time you felt she would be in a position, I would think she would read into that and associate leash = trouble. can you keep her on the lease for the whole time out? I still have Sadie on a long line on hikes so if she is fine, great, problem, I can reel her in. When we are walking in town, and I see a dog walking twards us, I pull to the side of the walk and put the girls into a sit a few feet away from the walk way, then as they are passing, Ill keep Sadies attention on me.

I hope this helps, I would also like to hear what the trainers have to say, I always look at others issues as a learning experience for all, ok, most.

Sorry, I forgot how old Sugar is, is she a baby?

Hi Lisa, thanks for your thoughts. I do leave the vacuum out sometimes, but its the noise and thrusting motion that she doesn't like, not the actual vacuum. I go through spurts where I "practice" vacuuming and she has gotten better so I'm really not as worried about this. This I think she will get over. She used to not like the hairdryer or bathroom fan and now has no problem at all with them. We are just still working on the vacuum!

I've heard that dogs on leashes can feel confined and trapped and can be worse, but in Sugar's case its the opposite. I don't know why, but for some reason she seems to be better, its almost like a comfort for her?? I don't think she associates the leash with trouble. I think she is actually better on the leash then without. Sometimes we walk and she is on the leash the whole time, but I usually take her on trails where she gets time to sniff and run and "be free" and she has so much fun doing that so I want to let her enjoy that time too.

I've also tried the long leash but I found it gets caught up in stuff and it was easier to not have it on.

CaroleBoaz wrote:Sorry, I forgot how old Sugar is, is she a baby?

She will be 1.5 years in the New Year.

Sugar and Sadie are about the same age, Sadie will be 15 months in december. The vacuum seems to bet he hardest thing to get over.

I think though the coming at her stuff is more to worry about. Im rarely around other people and dogs, we go on hikes and dont see too many people. I know what you mean about the long like getting stuck, many times Sadie and I are going around different sides of a tree.

Xena and I have started the "look at that" game that (I think) Carol, Boaz' mom, mentioned. We do it because Xena gets hair-up lunging and barking at bigger dogs approaching. I think it is the same fear just a different reaction. It really has helped. I bought that book Control Unleashed and boy, does it contain some good ideas.

In this game you click and treat the moment that they look back at you after looking at what they are reactive to. So when she is still far enough away that she is not yet on the run, you say "look at that!" all excited and happy the moment she glances click~treat, then when say "look at that!" again and when she looks, then glances back at YOU click and treat. It sounds complicated, but it took Xena less than a minute to get the concept. We first tried it out on the chickens. Not allowing her to look at them was not working on calming her down around them. It is so fun to watch those cogs turning. You can see her thinking "look at chicken, blink, look at mom, blink and I get a treat!!"

Now when we approach strange dogs, horses etc She will sometimes actually offer the glance and look to me. She wags while she does it. Also the minute she hears me say "Wazzat?" (our cue for it ~also stolen~ ) she visibly relaxes a bit. It would probably work for the vacuum too. Xena attacks mine, and my hair dryer etc. so that is an impulse control (down stay) time at our house.

Thanks, I'll look into that book.

Regarding the vac, hair dryer and ceiling fan.... These are all items that move the air. May be, besides making noise, this is scary to her. Since dogs have so sensitive noses, these "stirring up the air" items might be extra suspicious to them. Just a thought...........

[quote="Sugars Mom"]
I really want her to be confident so she doesn't have this fear.[quote]

Right there, I'd recommend you adjust your expectations/desires . She's never going to be confident/outgoing. You surely can help her to be as stable as she is genetically capable of being, but with these temperament issues, that's a more realistic expectation.

First off, I'd just say no if people ask if they can pet her. Then, if you happen to be hanging around them and she decides she wants to greet a particular person or two, fine. My Geyser, now 17 months old, doesn't like strangers (read is afraid of them). I NEVER let anyone approach her. She's fine with me, and she'll sit next to me calmly as long as I want to talk with another person or group of people. She will also gently accept treats from kids or adults, but they can not try to pet her or approach her. So, I don't let them. I see it as part of my job in protecting her. Would I prefer that she was more outgoing and less fearful of strangers? You bet. But, I can live with her being just fine, as long as people don't try to touch her.

So, you need to be ready to body block kids and adults. Just step in between them and her. Some people will listen, others are convinced they are Animal Whisperers and have the right to approach any dog they want to approach. Wrong .

This, in turn, means you need to be vigilant about the environment you're in when you're out with her.

The leash actually provides pack support, so to have it on gives her more confidence than less.

You can work on the people and dogs coming fast at her thing, but you have to do it in very small steps, starting at a distance at which she does not react. She's the only one who can tell you how great that distance is, whether a football field or ten feet. As another poster said, "see that person running?" (at a distance that doesn't bother her), then she looks at you, mark/reward. Repeat endlessly . Gradually move closer to the stimulus.

That focus on you thing is great to have, in many different situations. It becomes routine, and she'll get to the point where she just knows that that's what we do whenever 1) people come near, 2) people approach on a trail, 3) dogs come at you, etc.

As far as the vacuume goes, it's a similar process. You have to start at a distance that she's fine with, and reward her with stuff she loves (tug? high value treats? affection? whatever SHE loves).

I've taught Geyser to play tug with me when I'm vacuuming . The second I get the vac out, she runs to find the toy we use, and she can't wait to help me vacuume after dinner every day. So, she's on my left, I hold the toy in my left hand while I vac with my right, it's very gentle tug with some growling and tail wagging...it's not much tugging, believe me, it's more she's with me and we're both holding the toy and pulling a little bit. Does it take me longer to do the chore than if I did it without her help? A bit. I don't mind. I have a dog because I love to interact with her, so for me, it's not a problem.

I'd use much the same idea with anything that sparks a fearful response; stay far enough away to keep the response from edging over into reaction, and play. Get her to play in any environment/situation, so that the environment becomes irrelevant. The game is the thing, and engaging with you is the thing. The more you can think of ways to make things into games and fun together, everything else becomes irrelevant.

I'd be cautious about having her off leash in places where you can't control the other beings, expecially dogs. She'll still have a ton of fun walking trails with you, even with a leash on, and as you've found, things develop so quickly that by the time you fumble the leash out and get it attached, while you're paying attention to her and whatever else is coming at you, things get out of hand and you end up playing catch up rather than being in control for her. It's hard for you to model calm and in control, and things don't matter/no big deal when you're scrambling to try to attach a leash in the heat of the moment. And, what about the one in a however many times when that dog coming at her isn't friendly? Are you willing to take that chance?

(I like what one poster said about having your dog sit with you to the side when someone else approaches. We use this on trails for anything coming at us...people, bikers, people with dogs, etc. I tend to place myself between her and whatever is coming, and keep her focused on me/eye contact, feeding treats for good behavior as what/whomever passes. Then, during those rare times when you have to actually body block someone, you're already in position.)

Thanks Leih for the detailed reply. Lots of great advice I will put to use!!

Most of the time she really wants to go say hello to the other dog and is hopeful they will play with her. Definitley when she is on the leash she is less fearful. I guess like you said, she feels more confident that way. You can see her struggle with herself and do kind of a dance...stop and look at the dog, wanting to play, and go between going away and then to towards it. That is why I let her go through her fear thing until she realizes its OK then shes off and playing with the other dog. I was just hoping she would gain enough confidence at some point that she will just be fine with it right away. I did wonder if this was something that she would never get over fully.

Thanks again!