Englishes5 wrote:Our 11 month old Callie is part shepherd, part lab. I am a stay at home parent with 3 young boys, so I usually do the walking and training as opposed to her being in doggie day care every day. I have started recently taking her to play at day care once in a while when I am too busy to give her much play time, And our trainer suggested that this would be a good, safe way to help socialize her as well. Today I took her to play after several holiday days of being inside more than usual, and when I went to pick her up from a half day at daycare I was told that she bit another dog. The owner had commented to me when I dropped her off that she did not back down from another dog that wanted to be left alone. She told me that it was fine though, and I left thinking that she just needed seem good play time. I received the bad news when I returned to pick her up. The owner describes her as high energy for even a dog her age, and she said that when some dogs came into the yard today and everyone got excited, she got really really excited and bit another dog. The employee who tried to separate them was bitten accidentally as well. I have never had a problem at home with her being aggressive, and I have never seen her try to attack a person or dog. She lets my kids roll all over her, and she crouches down when other dogs approach us. (she will jump up to play as they get closer, but if i know they are not friendly i keep her away) She is always on leash with me in the yard and in the neighborhood, so when we are around other dogs in the neighborhood and I can see that she wants to play I try to avoid the other dogs. I don't know if she is overly energetic, if she is not "reading" the other dogs well, if she will grow out of this or if I have to do something. It is very upsetting to hear that I have the "problem" dog today! Especially since i already devide my time and attention among 4 other family members.
Is this a herding thing? Do I have a problem child? I want her to be able to be around other dogs, but I don't know how to do it without taking her back. I am waiting to hear from the trainer, and the daycare owner suggested that if we do return that she go more regularly. I am just afraid she will do it again before I have a chance to work it out of her.
I run a doggy daycare and have been in the pet care biz for about 15yrs now. There absolutely are good and bad and horrendous doggy daycares, dog walkers, pet sitters, etc out there just like with any other profession. Your trainer is right, a doggy daycare can in theory be an excellent place to safely socialize your dog, but that's only if it is a good daycare with appropriate protocols, good knowledgable staff, and to a degree if there are dogs attending that would make appropriate play mates for your dog. Even if the daycare and the staff are perfect, if there aren't any well matched dogs for yours to interact with, you're not going to progress with teaching your dog the lessons she's there to learn. There are dogs who do a whole lot better in a daycare then in a dog park or even a play group with their owner, your trainer is right, it's a completely different dynamic when the dog owners are removed. For that, daycares can be a wonderful way to socialize an otherwise socially awkward dog without the handicap of their owners being present, but this only works well if the daycare is a good one and capable of taking on that role. It does take special skills to do this vs just being a parking lot for already socialized and well playing dogs who only need minimal supervision.
Some thing about your story just doesn't sit right with me.
First off, if your dog is very high energy and an exuberant player (provided there are no other issues and she is a good fit otherwise) it is better to have her in daycare more often and regularly. Even once a week will do. When these dogs only go once in a blue moon, they bring in with them way too much coiled up excitement and frustration. That can easily boil over into aggressive episodes even in a dog that is otherwise not aggressive towards other dog in general as a daycare can be a very stimulating environment for them. If they come in regularly, it's not just about burning off steam, their learning curve is better, it's just like any learning. For those dogs daycare should be like social classes, they should be learning appropriate behaviours, in which case the more time goes between those lessons, they won't stick as well and they won't have a chance to form good habits.
It is not uncommon for a dog like yours to be very persistent at trying to get other dogs to play, but what this possibly tells me in your story is that this daycare does not have an appropriate playmate for her. In my experience, these dogs will bug and bug and bug dogs to play with them until they find one to play with. Once they do, they will play for ever or until they have had enough. If she is constantly bugging dogs especially to the point where she is getting into trouble, it sounds like she is having a very frustrating and unproductive day in terms of having her learn good lessons (in fact she is picking up bad habits!). It only means one thing, she does not have an appropriate playmate! It could be simply because there isn't another similarly matched dog attending that daycare, they might attend but on different days (ask the owner which days would be best especially since your schedule is flexible, but as a responsible daycare operator they should have been telling you this and making this suggestion at the time you signed up and told them exactly why you were there). It is also possible this daycare simply does not regularly accept very high energy dogs like her, every daycare has their preference to the type of dogs they accept and are willing to take on. Hence they don't have a playmate for her, hence they are not experienced in how to handle a dog of her type appropriately and are treating her based on standards set for lower energy dogs.
Ok.. so now I'm going to pull apart your description of what happened...
" I was told that she bit another dog. The owner had commented to me when I dropped her off that she did not back down from another dog that wanted to be left alone. She told me that it was fine though, and I left thinking that she just needed seem good play time. I received the bad news when I returned to pick her up. The owner describes her as high energy for even a dog her age, and she said that when some dogs came into the yard today and everyone got excited, she got really really excited and bit another dog. The employee who tried to separate them was bitten accidentally as well. "
What you described here makes no sense at all. Overly playful dogs will some times nip at another dog to try to elicit them to chase them or play them. It's like an annoying poke out of frustration. But it is not an aggressive bite. It's bratty and without manners, but it's not aggression. Generally if there is a fight that ensues, it's because the other dog got fed up and attacks the poking dog. If an employee intervened and got bit in the process, that to me sounds like it was a serious dog fight that resulted. That should not happen in a daycare with proper screening and proper management. It certainly can happen but if it does it is only an indication of multiple failures of the daycare's processes. (They do not separate dogs based on energy level, they do not intervene and stop bully behaviours, etc) It also means that likely the daycare staff is not trained on how to properly separate fighting dogs, a doggy daycare 101! Another indication for me that this daycare might not be up to par. Yes bites can happen, but it's a doggy daycare, we're not talking about a pack of working quality dominant dogs fighting to the death. A daycare should not see any thing more then a general dog scrap which is not that hard to break up if you know what to do and if an attendant got injured they were likely trying to reach in and grab a dog which is exactly what they should not be doing!
Also the fact that the owner would say that she is high energy even for a dog her age further indicates to me that person's lack of experience. Energy level has nothing to do with age in breeds that are naturally high energy. A hunting Vizsla for example can act like a 6month old lab until they are 10years old. It has nothing to do with age and to suggest that it does only shows they are limited in their experience to only dogs that are high energy when they are young. ie. not high energy breeds. Which means they are used to handling average dogs with average energy who calm down at maturity.
The ultimate fail for me is this: "she said that when some dogs came into the yard today and everyone got excited, she got really really excited and bit another dog". There is no way in hell that a dog like yours should even be put in the situation where they experience that sort of a mad dash. That is absolutely setting them up to fail. The daycare should have protocols on how to let in and out dogs in a controlled fashion, not as a pack of wild hounds, especially not in the presence of a dog they already know is overly excited, overly exhuberant, and with no proper social manners. That in itself is a recipe for disaster! That is the sort of nonsense I would expect in a dog park with a bunch of half brained dog owners who don't know dogs, not a professionally run doggy daycare. Massive doggy daycare fail! That is why I said, it takes a very special kind of doggy daycare to be that appropriate good place to do what you're trying to accomplish with your dog. Ideally they should have an attendant in charge of her and another attendant for the rest of the group, at least while she is in her initial training stages of being introduced to the pack. She should be on leash if necessary being trained and given treats for appropriate gate behaviour when being let in and out. They should practice recalls out of play with her. They should intervene way before there is even a remote possibility of a dog scrap. They should not have her there if they don't have an appropriate playmate for her which would likely be a dog of equal energy level, very playful, but also well mannered and able to appropriately and not violently put her in her place if necessary and not be a dog that would fight if she got too scrappy (at which point she should be taken away for a time out any ways instead of allowed to continue to escalate). If for what ever reason they don't have an appropriate playmate for her that day, they should be doing tons of things with her to keep her occupied, which is some thing that can be a lot of hard work and many daycares couldn't be bothered to do and they just let the dogs be dogs which with a dog like her just does not work. She is not a cruise control dog that you can just let in and let be. She needs work and they have to be willing to do this work, otherwise they are not doing you any favours at all.
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