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[jaxduthchie]

Hi All, I took in a Dutch Shepherd from a shelter yesterday. They had him down as a German Shepard but an animal control officer who was there informed us that he is in fact a Dutch Shepherd. We will be calling him Ronin. He is around 3 yrs old and seems quite skiddish. He likes treats but seems to be afraid to take them at times. He is great around people and other dogs, but seems to have some separation anxiety issues. When home, he has just been camping out in a corner and follows us into other rooms if we are in there for a bit. We hope he opens up as he gets more comfortable with us. I'm trying to find a small enough image to upload.

Anyway, I have come here to learn as much as I can and get any pointers or advice anyone has to offer.

Thanks!

[LyonsFamily]

Welcome!

Ummm...Where are the pictures?!
We love pictures!

Were you specifically searching for a DS, or did you just stumble upon this one? Any big plans for dog sports?

[johninny]

hi and welcome. thank you for adopting a DS in need of help!
talk to him A LOT. like anytime you can - in soothing, re-assuring tones. that will help let him know that he is welcome there and that you are his friend. also, if you pay attention, you may find out what commands and how much language he knows, which will help you work with him, etc. if he does not know language, you will also want him to start learning.
what do you know about him? circumstances of his prior life; how he came into the shelter, etc?

[Dutchringgirl]

Ditto what John said. Just be normal with him. Act like he has been there forever with you. Dont coddle him though if he seems scared, that will just reinforce the fear. Just ignore him then and let him work through it. Sometimes just sit on the floor with him, nice and quiet and let him sit with you and just be with you. I do this with my girls alot. We will sit in the kitchen floor while i drink my coffee, they will just lay next to me and get some lovin. Very relaxing and calming for all of us. For treats, maybe just put some on the ground next to you and let him come up and take them. If he is good feeding, sit with him next to the bowl while he eats, or feed him out of your hand. My DS have had separation anxiety too, I wonder if its because we train them to be our protectors. Thalie was trained to be glued to me, and she usually always comes with me where ever anyway, so If she stays home , she must be crated or she will eat my house.

[johninny]

very good advice to sit on the floor! fastest way to calm and win the confidence of an uncertain dog.

[LyonsFamily]

I posted this before, but it's a great article for working on socializing a dog of any age. http://www.clickertraining.com/node/3953

This dog was just torn away from everything it's ever owned, so it needs a period of adjusting. I would try to keep things low key. My biggest mistake I think I've ever made regarding dogs was having house guests a week after we got my rescue DS. I didn't invite them, but they're my in laws and I can't really say no. He didn't do great, actually did horribly, and it set him back a good 6 months of training.

Make sure things are fun for the dog and set it up for success. This can apply to in the house work too. Even if the dog doesn't take the treats, simply offering them can help gain his trust. Odin took about 2-3 weeks to walk past the first 3 rooms of our house and even longer to adjust to strangers other than me and my husband. He still prefers to stay in his xpen when settling, and will follow me into the office or kitchen, but he leaves and explores on his own and settles nicely.

Now, he's a little confident monster doing butt runs around the house. He came with me to look at property today and was the first to peak in windows and hop up on decks.

[johninny]

Stephanie, thanks for posting that. interesting, good advice.

[Dutchringgirl]

Steph, a really good article. Its gets down to basics and that is something either people forget, or like the writer of the article posted, people dont want to do, they want to take the dog and *bam* right into a busy situation that the dog, and handler, are not ready for. If the time is taken, then eventually, they will all be fine. I dont "socialize" Sadie. When my friend and her dogs come to the house, the dogs socialize on their own and it works out better. They set their own boundaries and there is respect and in no time, they are playing just fine. We are the ones who mess them up.

[jaxduthchie]

Thank You! I will try to respond in the order questions were asked.

I was not looking specifically for a DS. We went there because there was a FB flyer from the shelter volunteers saying they were over capacity and some dogs were going to be put down. Ronin caught my eye as soon as we walked in. I knew nothing about the DS breed except what I researched on my phone as we were meeting him. As of right now I have no plans except to make him comfortable and then explore any activities recommended. From my understanding I need to find a good activity to keep him mentally and physically engaged.

We started talking to him like he's a member of the family last night. It's amazing how he seems to understand that and watches us talk with him. He is house trained, is great on walks after some minimal corrections, is learning his new name, seems to know sit, down, and roll over. I'm not sure the best way to figure out what he already knows and what he is learning right now. If you have any suggestions as how to do this I woudl greatly appreciate them. As of now all I know is he was a surrender. The shelter is closed today but I am going to call them to see if they know anything more about his previous home.

We've been sitting on the floor with him a lot now. Talking with him and trying to make him feel comfortable. Thank you for this advice.

Thank you for the great article. I'm going to see about getting a trainer this weekend so we can figure out what we don't know and the best steps to take going forward. We had friends in town this weekend when we picked him up, but now everyone is gone and it is just him and I for the rest of the week. He has started going out on the porch now, but still usually remains in the area he first went to when he got home. I set out some towel there and it seems to be his home base. We tried to put him in the crate, I'm not sure if it reminded him of the pound too much or what, but he really did not like it in there. So I'm planning on easing him into that.

He has already learned the routine for going on his walks. Since he is older, I am not sure the best way to keep him with me when I am not at work. We went to the dog park at the end of the day yesterday when there were only 2 other dogs there. He seems to have had a great time off the leash running around. He was fine with the other dogs and ignored the other people. After reading the article I am afraid this was too much too soon, but he came when called at the end and seemed ready to head home.

I guess I'm just worried that I'll make some mistake in his training because I do not know where he came from. He seems to have been socialized properly so I do not want to overly limit him if there is no need. I have attached some pictures. Thanks again and please keep any advice coming! Feel free to ask any more questions of me as well.

[Dutchringgirl]

Yes, take it slow. DS are very sensitive and you dont want to push him backwards. Even though he is recalling, you can make a very long leash just to be careful. I have a 7' lead for Sadie. Her recalls are good but there are times where I dont want to take the chance. Its okay to be worried about making mistakes but dont let the worry come through to the dog, they will sense that and get worried themselves and then a mistake will happen. Have a game plan, then when you work with her on something you can be sure in your mind what you will be doing and the steps you take withe her. Take it slow and easy.

[jaxduthchie]

Thanks Dutchringgirl. Around here he must be on the leash at all times, except at the dog park. I will take him out tonight and work on some basic commands again. We've just been walking up and down our somewhat short deadend street so I think he is familiar with it. I've kept my worries in my head as I have grown up with dogs and recognize that a human's mood/attitude is picked up easily by dogs. It looks like my pictures are finally working! The bottom picture is how he's been spending most of this time so far...

[johninny]

he looks like a sweet beautiful boy. ask the shelter the reason for surrender that was stated by prior owner. it may be something really stupid [eats too much, too big, etc] or it may sound worrisome but then may or may not be true, but still might give a hint about something.
you will find a lot of negative opinions on dog parks here, including a bias against them here. the basic isuues are 1]strange and often out-of-control dogs [ whose owners often don't give a damn] and 2] health concerns of various sorts [ won't dwell there now]. if off-leash is impossible elsewhere [ do you have a yard?] and you determine that the dogs in the park at any particular time do not present a risk [ of them making trouble or as a target for Ronin?], then there may be good benefit if he really is relaxing and letting his hair down [ and tail up! ]. so I do not want to discourage dog park use for Ronin, but just offer a word of caution to be vigilant to his state of mind and that of the other dogs in the park.
premature to say, but your photo evidence and up-dates suggest to me that he may be a fairly confident dog underneath it all - and with a good, sound disposition. in any case, I think you and he both really lucked out!
just keep testing his language ability. a statement or a question -- then does he have an appropriate response or pointed interest and excitement. some of these dogs develop enormous vocabulary and a rather deep understanding of language [ giving meaning to words in different combinations and contexts].
so keep an open mind.

[jaxduthchie]

I'll let you'll know when I hear back from the shelter.

I understand the bias against the dog park as I have witnessed those issues in the past. Sadly I am pretty limited on places I can let him off leash. Right now I live in area where he is supposed to be on leash all the time. My yard is not fenced, nor very big(it's a street of condos in a community), and we have gators in the ponds so I am not comfortable letting him run around there. Once we reach a stage where we are both comfortable off leash, I plan on taking him over to the beach and letting him run. I have gotten suggestions of membership dog parks that require vet papers and screening of dogs before admittance, so I am going to look into those.

I've been reading up on DSs and I think my suspicion that he knows a lot more then he is letting on may be correct. I get the impression he is just taking in the scenery and trying to figure it all out right now. For now he continues to just look at me when I talk to him and stays on his towel bed in the area he likes. I don't want to push him too much but when he's a bit more comfortable we'll work on other commands to get him moving around more.

Question: After watching the movies in someone's (sorry I forgot who and can't see in this window) signature, I noticed that your dogs ears seem to always be up. Ronin's ears are up when we're out and he's taking in new things, which I take as a good sign, but most of the time they're back flat. He does not show any hostility when this happens, so I have taken it as a sign of his unease. I was wondering if anyone could offer any insight? I've been looking around for an aswer but have no found one as of yet. Thanks!

[johninny]

they were probably my videos on youtube. he is nervous and not sure of his position; and he MAY consciously be signaling you that he is no threat. at home, my dogs' ears go up and down[back] all the time as they communicate, munch on a marrow bone, whatever. the ears are at attention when they are on the prowl mentally or physically.

[Dutchringgirl]

He is very cute ! Sadie uses her ears alot, Thalie, not so much, but Thalie is very quiet and secure. Watch the ears and when and why they go up and down, that will tell you alot. Sadies ears go up and down a gazillion times a day, its quiet funny. The ears down can be alot of things from relaxed to insecure and worried.

[jaxduthchie]

Johninny, it was your videos! Thanks for sharing those.

I will watch him tonight and see if I can figure out when/why they change.

On another note, what would you all suggest my steps should be with him? I plan on taking it slow this week at home to try and figure out what he already knows. There was a volunteer there when I got him who is a trainer with Bark Busters, so I am thinking of trying to get with her this weekend to go over the basics with both of us. I am new to the area, having recently moved from CT to FL, so I am relying on recommendations. The animal control officer who was there said she uses another trainer for more advanced training with her German Shepherds. Depending on how the first session goes I am thinking of spending some time with him at some point to help Ronin and I get better acquainted. I don't want Ronin to get too lazy so I feel I should start with some formalized training before working with him on my own (I've been reading here about clicker training).

[Dutchringgirl]

Where in CT were you? I am in CT. I would defiantly take it slow for this week, no need to rush. Enjoy each other and have some fun. I would also defiantly talk to the animal control officer about an advanced trainer, that would be worth looking into.

[LyonsFamily]

I would talk to the animal control officer about the Shepherd trainer suggested. Bark Busters is a national (or international) chain and although each individual trainer can have a different approach, they seemed to get a lot of negative reviews. The ones local to me throw long chains and spray dogs in the face for corrections and don't seem too knowledgeable about dog behavior. I know Odin would eat the trainer as soon as they tried that.

A good piece of advise when researching any trainer or business is to type their name into google along with the word scam or complaint. You'll be able to find any negative reviews and judge for yourself.

[Dutchringgirl]

I would also go and sit in on some classes first. You do not want to subject your dog to anything negative. If anyone threw a chain or sprayed my dog in the face they would be farting out their ears.

[LyonsFamily]

I would also go and sit in on some classes first. You do not want to subject your dog to anything negative. If anyone threw a chain or sprayed my dog in the face they would be farting out their ears.

This is a whole new side to the Sadie wrath.