Puppy questions!

[Rob C]

Ok. So I'm still doing research DS's, and I check in here to the forum every day to see what's being posted, and what information I can pick up, which tends to be a ton lol. So here's a questions. I keep hearing about the demonic puppy possession. Is this something every DS puppy goes through? And what exactly does that entail?

[icvanstra]

lets start with the basics:
- scratched up arms to the point people will ask
- pant legs with bite marks and if you aren't wearing long pants...watch out for the scratchs on your legs
- needy
- demanding
- as much time as a newborn baby if not more

You are going to spend a lot of time redirecting that mouthiness and even encouraging it if you plan on working your pup later.

[Stacy_R]

- needy
- demanding
- as much time as a newborn baby if not more

And these (at least) go on through adolescence (through 18 months or so). Tyson is 12 months...I actually have a countdown going....

[Raven]

Geeeeez....18 months and beyond.

[Stacy_R]

Hahaha, true ^^^^. I guess I am just waiting for the intensity to diminish just a tad... I may be waiting a lot longer than 6-10 months...
Now where did I put my corkscrew.......

[Raven]

Oh, honey--start stockpiling boxes of wine. You'll waste too much precious drinking time digging out those newfangled corks.

[Stacy_R]

Edit: Tyson is 14 months...
And boxes...got it...LOL.

[LyonsFamily]

I guess I took the easy route (or the sober route? ) by starting with adults. Odin was 1 when we got him and Elli was 2. I don't think either really grew out of the crazy stage until around 3. Elli is still quite a bit crazy and I don't think she's going to settle down much more than she is now. She likes to tug on pants and coats if she gets too excited, but she easy self corrects with just a verbal command. They're both very demanding still, but Odin is more independent and can relax if needed. Elli will bring us a ball minute after minute to throw down the hall if we give in to her.

[Stacy_R]

I don't think either really grew out of the crazy stage until around 3.

Hmm...Looks like I need a 24 month calendar if I want to institute a countdown...

[Owned-By-Hendrix]

I agree with what everyone said above, especially about wine. My liquor store loves me now.

My guy still does the demon possession thing at night. To describe what he goes through… It's like that scene in the Exorcists where Reagan goes full on possessed with the spinning head and spewing vomit, sans vomit. He runs, barks, bites, jumps, runs into things, barely turns to his name… basically looks like he's on crack. While funny to watch for the first 30 seconds, it does not stop and gets more crazy without direction.

But I have found ways to circumvent/harness it. My usual plan of attack includes these elements in many combos:
1) take him outside with me everywhere. Car rides, pet stores, cafes, walks, parks, anything and everything I can think of.
2) play play play. I've found a rousing game of tug, fetch (the more erratic bounce the ball has the better), or even rapid fire obedience games now that he has the basics down work. We also do games working on recall (and lots of running for him).
3) doggy daycare. I found an awesome place with awesome staff who really work with him so he's not just running wild and picking up bad habits. Usually after one day of that and a short game of fetch he's yawning and stumbling after the ball.
4) learning. Routines, manners, obedience, sounds, what things are… that almost works as well as full on exercise.
5) chew toys. Buy more than you think s/he could ever need/want. Different sizes, textures, shapes… and keep switching them out. Also, if you have the time to keep an eye on the pup, a milk jug is a fantastic toy… for half an hour. Someone else on this form found this jewel and it has saved me a few times. Just take off labels. I like to put dried fruit in mine to make even more noise (I end up wearing ear plugs).
6) when I know he's tired and just doing the toddler "I'm not tired so I'm gonna wind myself up so I don't fall asleep" thing, I do what someone on this form found (I believe it was Karin) and click treat for relaxing. I use "be calm" and either in his crate or on a towel get him to lie down. Every time he moves position, sighs, or relaxes, he gets a click and a treat. Takes a bit of practice

Some days he's so tired he'll lay on the floor and growl at his ball. If I offer to play with him he just glares at the offered (or sometimes tossed) ball, puts his head on his paws, sighs, looks at me with this "why me?" look, and goes back to glaring/growling at it. Thankfully there's usually no demon possession once he's that pooped!

Also the mouthing does get better. My guy now knows "be gentle" means tone down the bite fest and "where's your toy?" means go get something to chomp on while we play. I've heard his redirecting applies even in doggy daycare. Just takes a lot of work and consistency when you first get them.

And yes, be prepared for a lot of scratches and bandaids and weird bite marks on your clothes. Currently my arms look like I've been in a fight with a badger. People will ask. People will stare. Some days, shop people may approach you and ask exactly why is there a bite hole on the butt of your jeans (this has happened to me).

Also, they do demand a lot of attention. I've worked with kids and I've never spent as much time with my pup as I did with them. But I wouldn't trade a second of the chasing, the correcting, the redirecting, the watching, or the antics of having Hendrix for anything else.

[Raven]

Rob,

I'm sure you already have, but to be sure, thought I would mention for you to check out the other present thread, "A Day In The Life...." Gives a feel for how some of us attack the energy level and their needs when they're older.

[Karin]

Tygo definitely had demonic possession between 6-9 PM. It really freaked me out at first. I did read that this is when his daily testosterone is peaking. At nearly 7 months, it is much better. He no longer bites me and he isn't a complete jerk and terror. He still goes after beds, so he doesn't have one and I defend the others for my old dog. His snapping at the air and being a bit pissy with me when I work to cap his destruction is also much less.

[johninny]

OMG - Kira, i laughed like hell reading your post. we are insane to go through this stuff that you captured so well. imagine 3 !!

inspired by your post and Eric's, i think i will work on a photo portfolio of winter coats, general outerwear, shirts, pants AND underwear that display their DS wounds prominently.
once a DS grabbed the bottom edge of a T-shirt and ran in circles around me - disrobing me by a continuous 2-inch swath of cloth that finally reached my neck - undressing my torso like un-doing a MayPole.

[Stacy_R]

once a DS grabbed the bottom edge of a T-shirt and ran in circles around me - disrobing me by a continuous 2-inch swath of cloth that finally reached my neck - undressing my torso like un-doing a MayPole.

[Raven]

By the time I reached "May pole," John, I had imagined you drilled into the ground like a screw through a two-by-four.

[Rob C]

Hey everyone. Haha thank you for the replies and the laughs. I appreciate all of the info. I'll go check that other thread too. I've looked at some of them, but I'll sit down and read through it to find out the different things people do. And I love the milk jug thing. I did that with a Pit Bull I rescued and he absolutely went nuts with it right up until he figured out how to tear it to shreds. But every few days he had a new one so he was happy. Now for a new puppy, I know they get their Parvo/Distemper shots. I already checked with the vet here to find out when they do theirs. My neighborhood has a TONNNNN of dogs in it. How would you recommend getting him/her outside to burn energy without risking it? I understand that it's not like every dog in the neighborhood has it, and the chances of coming in to contact with another dog who has it is probably rather minor. So would it be safe before the puppy has ALL of the shots, or after the first parvo/distemper do you think it's safe at that point as long as he/she isn't around every thing with a tail or nub?

[icvanstra]

Good example of a SIX year old DS.

A good friend came over last evening and he has known Cino since the day I brought him home. My friend has dog sat, hung out with, and otherwise been around Cino for everything.

The one thing that my friend hasn't done much of is hang out with Cino in my house. I recently moved and people are coming to my new house a lot more than my old one.

Last night my friend was exhausted with how demanding Cino is. Early on I asked if he wanted me to put Cino into a down stay. When I take Cino anywhere it is all about control and focus. At home ... it is controlled chaos. My friend said no so I played with Cino "sub-conciously." At home I don't even think about it - down, stay, sit, stay, fetch, here, standing stay, reward, reward, reward...

Well, Cino had a new "toy" to play with and was all over my friend (a dog person through and through).

One of the funnier moments was my friend trying to WIN at TUG. I suggest to my friend that he not play tug, but he insisted...and lost EVERY time. My friend is used to hunting dogs and not working dogs. Showed him how to make TUG a game and not a competition. He didn't get it. Kept trying to WIN.

Lesson to learn - you will never WIN with a well bred Dutch Shepherd. You will be happy to gain their respect and get them to play the game. When they do OUT during the game you better be ready to reward because they will let you know that you didn't do it.

Something else I have found out about Dutch Shepherds - they don't take punishment well. Punish incorrectly and the DS will shut down. ...hopefully some others can expound on this point as well. Reward, love, trust and otherwise respect between you and your DS is generally the right thing to do.

[Owned-By-Hendrix]

John I LOVE that story (and the idea for the photo portfolio)!!!! I could add a few socks, my winter jacket, and a few pants to that too. I can't imagine how you live with 3 guys on crazy days, but you must get 3x the laughs too!!! I kind of want another one...

Rob I skipped a bit with Hendrix since I got him at 3 months (plus 2 rounds of parvo/distemper). But I was still weary so not every day we went outside the backyard. Some days we went to shopping strips or other more people centric areas, or just went for drives. I would also drive him to neighborhoods where I knew dogs weren't walked/owned. Probably over kill on my part but great experience for him! It's a balance you'll have to decide what you're comfortable with. If I had had him when I was supposed to get him (at 8 weeks) my plan was to wait until one round of vaccines and then just be very careful until round two, then go out a bit more. As far as dogs, I wouldn't meet strange dogs until after all their shots. I'm sure others have more experience in this area and I will fully admit I was dumb from new puppy excitement.

Though I will admit, that first week I was so busy getting used to him and his schedule (I was full out RUNNING to keep up) we barely went outside the backyard. But the backyard is also an awesomely big and curious. I know when Hendrix arrived he was all about the plants (he wanted to eat) and the gates (he wanted to run through) and the neighbors (he could bark at) in the backyard.

[Rob C]

Something else I have found out about Dutch Shepherds - they don't take punishment well. Punish incorrectly and the DS will shut down. ...hopefully some others can expound on this point as well. Reward, love, trust and otherwise respect between you and your DS is generally the right thing to do.

What do you mean by punishment? When I had my PitBull and he did something wrong, he would get a stern "No" and I would show him what was wrong. Like if he had chewed something he wasn't suppose to. But it was always positive reinforcement. He was never hit with anything or screamed at, or locked in a crate for doing something wrong. Is this what you mean by punishing correctly? Or how would you advice punishment techniques for a DS? Anything in particular like potty accidents, chewed furniture, etc?

[Rob C]

Also, I see a lot of mentions about "mental stimulation." What does everyone mean by that? Is that like laying treats in certain places so the dog can play hide and seek and find them? What else does everyone do for things like that? The energy level and activity of the DS would fit great in my home. I'm a rather hyper active person so lazy dogs don't sound very appealing to me. I'd much rather have one that wants to go every where with me on walks and runs, playing, etc. I just want to learn as much as I can before I commit to purchasing a puppy or adopting one whichever route I end up taking.