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[smc1118]

Hello everyone I'm here to learn I want to own ether the Belgian malinois or the Dutch Shepherd I have been doing a little research on them and hands down I think there the best dogs but I never had experience with them that's why im here can anyone give me advice thanks in advance

[Dutchringgirl]

Welcome ! First off, what are your intentions with them? What is your life style? Work, play home life etc? That will help us help you decide which one is right for you.

[Raven]

Welcome. With which other breeds do you have experience? Another thing to consider in the BM vs DS is the line. Some breeders might have a lower drive dog in a litter (if that's what you want/need), but your replies to Lisa's questions would help define that.

[smc1118]

I am a laid back kind of guy buy I am willing to do what I have to do to make the dog happy I use to own a pit bull but I am looking more for a protector and from what I have seen they fit the bill

[Dutchringgirl]

Do you work during the day? where will the dog stay while you are at work? What do you do on the weekends. What training can you provide for yourself and the dog?

There are plenty of good breeds that will protect. Even my parents Basset does a good job protecting the house. I am not being sarcastic either, the BH has such a deep loud bark that anyone approaching the house will hear her and think she is a big scary dog.

[Raven]

I am a laid back kind of guy

I used to be kind of laid back until DSs. They kind of really aren't... (And Bel Mals surely aren't.) Both breeds, as you know, need lots of physical and mental stim. They need jobs, they're thinkers, problem-solvers, super-quick to learn so you need to know what you're teaching before you teach it. If you read through some threads, you'll see some challenges that others have come across, and not all from working-line dog newbies, either.

[smc1118]

right now im not working im in the process of graduating in 7 day for welding so I will be working in that field I will be working days while im at work my wife can handle the dog till I get out I really got my mind set on those two breeds I understand they are challenging dogs that's why I haven't went out and just said hey let me get this dog I am actually doing research on them that's why im on here to learn from people who have experience

[Stacy_R]

I am looking more for a protector

There are many breeds who are wonderful protectors and who may not require as much stimulation/work. My neighbors have a lab and a great dane, each with a vicious bark...NO ONE is going in their yard or home...I promise!!! I had a Shar-Pei foster dog who I could walk and people would literally cross the street and all he had to do was look at them (I miss that dog!!!).

I will be working days while im at work my wife can handle the dog

Make sure she is ready, willing, and up for the task. This is not the kind of dog that will just be happy hanging out, watching her clean house or do yard-work. Oh no...they will "help" you whether you like it or not. They can be insufferable when intent!!! And this is not the kind of dog that you can just stick in the backyard to get out of your hair...they will find something to do...and you won't like the results. If you are spending your days at work and she is home with the dog, much of the training will fall on her shoulders because she is the one who will be with him/her during the day. Rain, shine, or snow, she'll be walking, training, working him/her (or your furniture, shoes, etc will suffer the consequences). These dogs need mental and physical stimulation...not either-or, but both. I can take my guy on a 3 mile walk doing obedience drills the whole way and after a 20 minute power nap in the car he is ready to go again when we get home.

Just be sure everyone is ready...really, really ready... Or everyone (including the dog) will be miserable. Just my

[Dutchringgirl]

I can not stress enough about what Stacy said. Drill that into both of your heads , and then do it again. Neither of these breeds are the housy type, not even close ! With that said though, I would not do a Malinois. They dont have an off switch. I have had both, and I love them both but I also did major training and trialing with both. In the house, the DS has an off switch, but that DOES NOT mean they will just sleep all day while your wife does her thing, oooooooooh no no no. they will do their thing too, Trust me ! AND......they are super stealthy, there have been times where I am working on the computer and they are both sleeping, next thing I know one is gone [ those of you who know me will know which one is gone] and there is havoc in the house.

If all you are looking for is protection, a bark when someone comes to the house, I would not advice either of these breeds. When it goes wrong it will go wrong bad and the dog will be the one to pay the price.

[Stacy_R]

When it goes wrong it will go wrong bad and the dog will be the one to pay the price.

I see this way too much in the world of rescue...

A high-energy, high-drive dog in the wrong environment (i.e. an environment not properly equipped for the structure, training, and exercise - both physical and mental that these dogs require) is a recipe for disaster on all fronts. Take a serious and honest look at your lifestyle, environment, and abilities before deciding on a breed. BM and DS are wonderful protectors, that is true, but if your lifestyle doesn't fit with the demands of the dog (physically and mentally) you run the risk (more like probability) of the dog running the house and becoming unmanageable. Not all breeds fit with all lifestyles. It's not a bad thing and says nothing about the type of owner that you are, it just is. With these dogs, training never stops...ever. I think it is awesome that you are researching before you decide, but keep your options open to other breeds as well with your lifestyle as the main criteria. Everything else comes after that. Make sure your wife is included in the process because a good part of her day is going to be spent on dog things instead of her things. And you can kiss your relaxing weekends goodbye, because your wife is going to want to send you away with the dog on your days off so she can catch up!!! LOL

[Raven]

When I worked, I had another job when I got home...training. Never-ending training.

I'm home all day now with mine (as are others with theirs on this board), but a lot of my time is not really my own. I need chunks of time to concentrate/work, and when he was was younger, that was impossible; now, not-so-much, but being protective, many sounds and sights of something moving, he's on alert. This would drive some people nuts. He's become a huge help around the house and property, and with that comes always having him as my third-leg. They're "lots of dog" who require lots of consistent and fair training, need all family members on the same page, and they typically aren't very fond of anyone outside their own family...so you'd both need to know how to train/handle that.

[Dutchringgirl]

More great points! Sadie was a rescue and no way would she work out in any other home but someone who knew the breed. She is super high drive and at every sound she is up and checking it out. Like Raven said, when they get a bit older they are better, they get used to what is going on in the house etc, but as a puppy, forget it. Sadie would fall asleep, but as soon as I moved, she was up at attention waiting for her next command. Also about the non family members, big one there, any newbies to the house, you will have alot of dog on your hands always working with them on how to behave.

I would like to hear more about what you plan to do with the dogs? What does your wife say, how does she feel? What are her thoughts? As of now with the limited information, I would be against getting either of these breeds.

[johninny]

reading all this back and forth discussion, it sounds like you and some theoretical Mal or DS would be much better off if you chose another ''protection'' breed that does not need all the detailed and knowledgeable attention to their intellectual and physical needs as these lowlands dogs do. if you do not get it right [ which can be a full-time job in itself ], then one of these dogs can make your life a living hell, and then unfortunately, tragedy probably comes to the dog also. if protection is what you want, keep it simple and make it easy for yourself: get a less complex, less cerebral dog, of which there are many that excel at family/home protection.

[Raven]

I can't imagine what we must sound like to you, but it certainly isn't personal, though it is in the best interest of you, your wife, and your future dog that we say what we say, ask what we ask.

From the second I was born, I was never without dogs. All kinds of dogs and always multiples of dogs. And you know what? For all those years of growing up around dogs and always having dogs as an adult, I found I pretty much knew squat about dogs until I accidentally ended up with a DS. It was like having to jump on a running freight train and take control of it without knowing the mechanics of what made a train a train. I committed to the dog, so that was that, and the husband, while supportive, had an incident (they inevitably happen) two weeks into it and declared the dog needed to leave. She didn't, of course, but I had to get a quick handle on matters. She was very complicated. Which is true of DSs, I believe. Some people and trainers say a dog is a dog is a dog. Not true.

I now have my second DS, but to tell you the truth, my life changed with the first one and REALLY changed with the second one. The second makes the first one look like Julie Andrews in The Sound Of Music.

Even with how you train a DS, it's work. Hard work. And all the time. They have an incredible sense of fair play, and if you don't train or treat them fairly and with respect...things happen. That said, without balance, they'll rule the roost. There's a lot of surrendered DSs as well as those who get tied up in backyards or let loose.

So, I hope you don't think we're telling you what to do. We just would like you to know that while they are, indeed, magnificent beasts, there's price we pay to have these dogs in our lives. My husband and I can't think of owning another breed, but we fantasize about it sometimes. And drink. Some days we drink a lot.

[Dutchringgirl]

I can't imagine what we must sound like to you, but it certainly isn't personal, though it is in the best interest of you, your wife, and your future dog that we say what we say, ask what we ask.

From the second I was born, I was never without dogs. All kinds of dogs and always multiples of dogs. And you know what? For all those years of growing up around dogs and always having dogs as an adult, Some people and trainers say a dog is a dog is a dog. Not true.

I now have my second DS, but to tell you the truth, my life changed with the first one and REALLY changed with the second one. The second makes the first one look like Julie Andrews in The Sound Of Music.

Even with how you train a DS, it's work. Hard work. And all the time. They have an incredible sense of fair play, and if you don't train or treat them fairly and with respect...things happen. That said, without balance, they'll rule the roost. There's a lot of surrendered DSs as well as those who get tied up in backyards or let loose.

So, I hope you don't think we're telling you what to do. We just would like you to know that while they are, indeed, magnificent beasts, there's price we pay to have these dogs in our lives. My husband and I can't think of owning another breed, but we fantasize about it sometimes. And drink. Some days we drink a lot.

I ditto every word.

[Smanders]

I am new to owning a DS puppy and I would say, if you can't spend 4-5 hours a day doing exercise and training, and even more time with inside house games/inforcing inside house rules then this would be a really challenging puppy/dog to get. My partner and I have contrasting schedules and one of us is almost always home and we litterally spend every spare second we have with Hobbes and he keeps us on our toes. You have to be dedicated to exercising them (there are No sleep in days or no non walk days ever (and not just one walk but many)) and even more dedicated to sticking with training. From what I have found with Hobbes they require a ton of both. He still tests me everyday to see what he can get away with. I have almost unlimited time to spend with Hobbes and am a nerd and watch dog training videos often (and go to obedience training) and I still run into very challenging situations with him that at the time can seem overwhelming.

What Sharon said about them ruling the roost, that is NO exaggeration. I really thought because I had previously owned a DS I would be good at maintaining leadership, but I can honestly say that it's a daily challenge. He knows he is not the boss but that doesn't stop him from trying to be (or putting his two scents in about how he thinks things should go!)

Don't get me wrong here they are an excellent breed and I love mine to pieces but I would compare Hobbes, at times, to having two three year olds who just ate chocolate bars and a pop running around or what I imagine a hungry hyena pup would be like. He can be a handful. If we ever have to go somewhere and Hobbes will be alone (for more then 5 hrs )we have to make sure we get in a good 2-3 hour hike beforehand and/ or that my friend (also not just any friend but one that knows how to handle him) can come and take him for a walk during the mid point otherwise there will be no sleep at night.

Also I would ditto what everyone said about making sure your partner is on board and is also committed to owning a high energy dog. Otherwise she might want to kill you, they aren't laid back friendly lab's.

It's awesome that you are doing your research!! Let us know what you decide on !!