looking for breeders near central MD

[TimL_168]

Hi,
This is actually my third attempt to post here. My PC keeps timing out, and when I hit post, it tells me I have to log in. Oh, to be so busy! So, I'm going to try to get this done shorter now.
I'm going to be looking for a new pup in 12 to 24 months time. I'm really leaning toward he Dutch shepherd for what seem to be the usual reasons. I have some questions about my expectations, and a dutch's ability to meet them. I have some questions about breeders, and people's experiences with them.
My questions:
1) I run all year round. I enjoy running with my dogs. My current dog(95#,plush,black Shiloh shepherd) can't handle the heat above 75F. We run at parks where it's common to see deer. Squirrels and rabbits don't bother me much. After training and more training, I can recall my current dog, Aurora, from a chase. With proper training, do you think it's possible to recall a Dutch from a chase? Related to this, is -
2) we hunt. I found out by accident that Aurora can find and follow a lost blood trail after a shot. I have worked with her to develop the skill, but she really just doesn't have the drive to be reliable. Great nose- she'll poke around for a minute or more to find the exact stick I threw into a pile, just lacking in energy. Do you think blood trailing is something I could do with a Dutch? Is there any reason it might be a bad idea?
Gotta go now, thanks for any advice. I'll be back later on with more.
By the way, this forum is great. Al lot of the info from breeders and other sources doesn't matter as much to me as the daily, personal accounts you have here!
Thanks,
Tim

[karenz]

Welcome. I'm in NC. I got my guy from up your way in eastern WV. He has long hair unlike all his siblings. But I liked that about him. He handles the blistering NC heat pretty well. I make sure he has plenty of water. My last ds was short haired and had absolutely no problem with heat. He would stay out all day playing if I let him.

They can definitely recall. My Xander is getting good at recalling off his ball when playing fetch. I have no doubt that he will eventually recall off anything with more training.

I have no idea about hunting. Maybe others here will have some input. I can say that Xander has a great nose and can sniff out a tiny piece of hotdog hidden in the yard. Or a specific stick as you mentioned. Or his ball hidden in the yard. However, he does greatly enjoy chasing squirrels and birds. I would hate to see what would happen if he caught one.

[LyonsFamily]

I don't think you'd have problems with the recall if you work it well enough. Most of these guys do have a very high prey drive, but thorough training will likely solve that. Since your dog physically won't be ready to run with you until he's at least a year old, so you'll have plenty of time to lay a good foundation. Heat doesn't seem to be a problem for my dogs at all. They are bred to work and herd all day, whereas a Shiloh was bred for companionship, so you'll be an advantage there. Both of mine have run off leash at times with my husband, usually 2 miles at a time.

As for deer tracking, my dog Odin is trained on blood tracking and he's pretty good at it. I think that is something you'll have to ask the breeder about, or test for if you get an older dog or a rescue. My guess would be that dogs with tracking or IPO backgrounds would give you the best opportunity. My other DS, Elli has insane drive and desire to work, but tracking is too tedious and boring for her. She can track a short track and find the exact item or stick I've placed, but I wouldn't imagine she would be much help with time critical deer tracking. She is, however, very good at finding and fetching deer antler sheds.

A tip for the post, write it in Word first and copy it over, or select all and copy it before hitting submit so you can always just paste and go.

My only concern with anyone getting a DS is that you're prepared to exhaust them both physically and mentally. Running is great, but it usually doesn't tire them out and can often just boost their endurance more. How often will the puppy/dog be left alone? Do you have experience training dogs beyond the basic sit and down? These guys can be quite the handful.

I would expand your breeder search farther than your area. A good breeder is worth their weight in gold and when you're looking at a 12-15 year commitment, getting a good healthy dog up front and travelling further for it is going to be worth it.

[johninny]

nothing to add except a dog's ability to take heat [ and esp. humidity ] will vary tremendously within the breed: some handle it well, some do not. anecdotal observation suggests the DS with finer coats [ silky and light ] AND darker coats seem on average to be more oblivious of heat.
there is also on rare occasion downright exercise intolerance among some, at least when it is warm/hot [ i have no idea whether this condition is more or less prevalent in DS vs. other breeds ]. only mention all the above because, generalities of heat tolerance and great exercise endurance aside, it is POSSIBLE to get a dog that simple would not be capable of being a running partner.

and, of course, as Stephanie said, you cannot really test their running stamina until they have finished growing somewhere between 12 and 18 months. still, it would be the rare DS that would not want to be your running partner and be capable of handling that.

[TimL_168]

Good morning,
Thank you all for the replies.
Karenz- I was looking into Vandalia. She has been one of the few people to return an email to me so far. I was a little concerned about the tone of the message. I'm going to try to give her a call sometime to see if I could arrange a visit to check things out. Your dog is gorgeous! I'm really interested in a shorter haired dog- I'd rather spend the 45min training rather than cutting knots and branches out! But Xander seems to be a handsome balance.
Lyonsfamily- I am completely fine with taking a long day to visit/ bring home a pup. I'd just prefer to not have a dog shipped if I can avoid it and still get (hopefully) the dog I want. I have fairly extensive experience with our family dogs and their training. Mostly just obedience. The sled dogs are knuckleheads- devious, lying, escape artists, but smart. I could teach them all kinds of stuff but they would never do it when I was looking. I've been able to go farther with Aurora than I have any other dog so far.
In respect to stimulation- we have two boys( 11 & 3), so there is never going to be a moment when something isn't going on. I have been preparing myself mentally for all the work I'll have to do to keep them interested in things I want the dog to do. But no, I won't be ready!
Gotta go now, be back later on today. Thanks everyone!

[TimL_168]

Got another minute
I'm totally aware of not running a dog until a certain point of maturity. We have plenty of space around the yard for training, agility, etc. I started Aurora on short runs of 1/2 mile or so at the age of 12 mos. As we worked up to longer distances of three miles or so, I noticed she didn't want to jump into the truck after she cooled down. It was then that I remembered the day I picked her up her father was there, and I caught a glimpse of his owner helping him into their minivan. Her hips were Xrayed at the breeder's desire at 24 months +/-. If I remember correctly, her hips were excellent, elbows were good or normal. I'd have to dig it up. So, I think there's either some genetic soft tissue issues, or ones that I brought about. either way, she's still happy and healthy. Leg extensions are fine. She just doesn't like to jump when cold. It's been beaten into my brain now that it's better to wait a little longer. I'm patient.

[karenz]

Xander says thanks for the complements. His hair isn't too bad. An occasional knot around his butt hair but if I keep it brushed every couple days it's fine.

I have read alot on here about land of Oz and Cher Car. I would definitely check them out. I have been very pleased with Vandalia. But I haven't heard alot on here about them. So I can only speak from my experience. I felt like Betsy was honest with me and helped me pick out a great puppy for what I wanted, an active pet, one that I could start with and play around at home with obedience and agility. I was never interested in competition and getting titles. Maybe she was just lucky but she had two pups in the litter that she felt were better suited for "pets". Even though Xander has alot of drive and energy he has for the most part been pretty easy to deal with. After I first got him I texted her with a couple issues we were having and she immediately texted me back with help and suggestions. I still send her updates on Xander and she always responds.

By all means check out as many breeders as you can. Find what you feel is the best choice. But if you are trying to stay somewhat local I would recommend her. I called several breeders. A couple never called back after leaving several messages. Maybe my message I left did not appeal to them. I didnt leave much info than how to reach me and I was looking another dutch shepherd. I talked to a couple more that I felt were just trying to make a dollar. I could tell because they were more concerned with explaining deposits, non refundable, and having all the money by pick up. They didn't even bother to ask what my intentions were with the dog or if I had ever owned a working dog before, or what my experience was.

Betsy did ask me all these questions and seemed very concerned with placing her pups in appropriate homes. She seemed as concerned about where the pup was going as I was about where the pup was coming from.

This is just my 2 cents. Like I said I can only speak on my experience but do call around and get a feel from several breeders before you choose one.

[TimL_168]

Karenz- ditto on much of your comments. Land of Oz seems like they are breeding for dogs with than I think I should use. CherCar sounds like my kind of people& program. I haven't tried to contact them due to the distance and my desire to be able to visit. But I'd have no problem trading that visit for a solid rep. Aurora's breeder was exceptional and I'm really hoping I can find one as interested in putting their pups in the right homes. It does seem though that that is more of the general rule among Dutch breeders, and that is extremely encouraging. I've yet to hear back from a few Dutch breeders, working GSD breeders and ONE mal breeder. Another local one was super excited to sell me a dog a couple months ago, with no questions asked. Totally not interested. Happened to meet one of hers a few weeks ago. I've met cats I liked better. But that did lead me to a local trainer that I think is pretty good. Gotta go sit in on a class.

[karenz]

I haven't heard of Aurora. Where are they located? Just curious. I missed that one on my search.

[TimL_168]

heh. sorry, Aurora is my Shiloh shepherd. 95lbs. long hair. more long hair. mostly black with some gray and tan. more hair.

[TimL_168]

gotta figure out how to compress an image. All my files are too big.

[karenz]

Sorry I didn't put 2 and 2 together on the name Aurora. I only use my phone because I don't have time to sit in front of a computer unless I'm at work. So scrolling back is difficult. I use an image resizer app so I can post pics. I resize them and save them in my gallery so I can post them. Post some pics when you get a chance. I have a friend who was interested in a shiloh shepherd. I don't know much about them.

[Owned-By-Hendrix]

I'm trying to think if there's another place near you.... Besides Christie in TN and the breeder I got my guy from in MI, I think there's also Megan Bay (Kole Mountain Kennels) I want to say near you.... And Ashley Winters (?). I'm having a blank on kennel names and locations now. I've probably destroyed these two names (sorry!).

[TimL_168]

they are a great dog. Solid temperament. Mildly protective instincts. They can be quite handsome. As usual with breeders, there is some ... disagreements between the two registries. But there are registries with pedigrees. I got a TSSR dog. The breeder didn't seem as nuts as the ISSR founder/ breed developer. I was kind of surprised - I actually didn't realize I was getting a dog from the other registry's head until I was writing the check for the paperwork and realized it was the same as where I was standing picking up the pup. The dogs are really great companions. Great with kids. intimidating by sheer size. They have all of the instincts and abilities that all shepherds are supposed to, just dulled down. I always recommend them due to their intelligence/laziness ratio. they are super smart with good memories (great story about teaching mine to close doors). So you can teach them anything, and they'll do it if physically possible. But I honestly believe that the reason Aurora doesn't really get into anything bad(besides dead frogs-she finds them irresistible) is not due to my training to prevent the behavior, but rather her sheer lack of a desire to expend the energy to do it.

[TimL_168]

I think I've looked at Kole mt. There a few more that are either sorta on the way or just past my family's farm in eastern KY. I'm not ruling anything out really. I'd just rather not ship if I can avoid it. When it's all said and done, I've got quite a long time to make a decision on who I'm comfortable with, try to visit, and wait for the right pup. In the meanwhile, I'm going to soak up as much as I can. I'm ready for more dog than I've got!