Common Dutch Ailments?

[montecarlogirl87]

are there any issues that are more common with dutches?

I know about hips/elbows, and problems with euthanasia...what about seizures?

the reason I ask is Shylah just scared the shit out of me... her and Shota had their morning run and tussle out back, burned off their energy and came back in, Shylah drank water as normal, I fed them breakfast, as normal... and while I'm in the kitchen fixing myself some coffee I hear something fall over by their food bowls

by the time I make around to the other side of the kitchen counter, Shylah is over by the porch door with her head down, not real surprising cus if anything ever goes wrong (including Shota getting into something she shouldn't) Shylah will act like she's about to get scolded until you tell her it's ok and it's not her fault...

but when I told her it was okay and she started to walk back over to me she was very wobbly and had her head tilted, she kinda sat sideways/collapsed onto their beds... I petted her and told her it was okay, got her to calm down a bit, after a minute she stood up and moved over and laid on her own bed properly... she's acting normal now

ETA: she just went walking out back, again, very normal, no wobbliness

[Dutchringgirl]

how long after your run and play did you feed them ? Did you wait or feed them right after play?

[montecarlogirl87]

no, I made sure they calmed down a bit, Shota would try to eat even if she was dying, so I didn't want to feed them when they were still winded and panting

[Dutchringgirl]

how much time? an hour, half hour. I dont know what " i made sure they calmed down a bit " means

they are animals, they will eat no matter what, all they think about is survival, they do not understand that if they play they cannot eat for a awhile, that is our job as their guardians, to think about things that they cannot

[montecarlogirl87]

I would say a half hour at least

[Dutchringgirl]

I usually wait an hour. I dont know if half hour was okay or not since I dont know how hard they were playing. Not sure if its related but I would wait an hour to be safe and they are breathing normal.

[Raven]

Lisa and I were cross-posting.

Obviously, there's no way for any of us to say what happened.

Beware of bloat and know how minimize the potential. The breed can be prone. While what you described are not common symptoms as I know them to be, I mention it because of the exercise they received then were watered and fed. Wait at least one hour--an hour of no activity. Be sure of it. By the time most folks realize there's something wrong, it's too late.

As for the symptoms, they do sound seizure-ish. I had a dog (non-DS) who suffered terribly from seizures; some were mild, some horrific. She presented a lot of variations.

Has she received any trauma?

[montecarlogirl87]

no trauma

this was not hard exercise... they both sleep in my bedroom with me at night and normal routine is in the morning I let them out into our backyard, they go to the bathroom, Shylah normally checks the perimeter and they'll normally chase each other a bit... then they come in and cool down and have breakfast

she has been acting perfectly normal since

[Owned-By-Hendrix]

Sounds like a vestibular problem. From what little I know about dog seizures (and it's REALLY little) they aren't up and moving immediately after one. Although I assume they could also have TIAs like humans which hypothetically would present as sudden onset dizziness and weakness. I would call the vet and just ask what the signs of a seizure are and keep an eye on her for 24-48 hours, just so you know in case she did suffer a TIA and like humans it's a warning sign for a seizure. Not saying it is or isn't, or even anything other than she fell over hard and scared herself.

As far as other issues, I've heard allergies, bloat is always a concern, injuries from going hard and not resting, and occasionally a kidney issue though those are rare. Other then that and what you've posted they're pretty healthy.

[Raven]

I, too, know little. My dog definitely had seizures, but there were occasions she acted normally once one had ended. There was never a conclusion, though, on the type of seizure or what was causing them. (Poor thing had one last an hour. The second we pulled in the ER in the middle of the night, it stopped--of course. She looked at the vet as if to say, "What? What're you looking at?"

Here's what a site had to say about head tilt:

There are a number of reasons a dog may have a head tilt. Dogs with a head tilt may also experience a loss of balance, or walk in a circle. In general, head tilt is caused by an abnormality of the vestibular system, which includes portions of the inner ear, nerves, and brain which help the body maintain balance. The most common cause of head tilt is a middle or inner ear infection, or an infection or inflammation of the brain. Other causes include, hypothyroidism, injury to nerves, cancer, toxic side effects of certain antibiotics, and congenital defects. Some older dogs develop a temporary head tilt from an unknown cause. This is sometimes called 'old dog vestibular disease.' Until your veterinarian determines otherwise, head tilt should be considered a sign of a serious disease, and veterinary attention should be sought as soon as possible.


This may be the only instance she displays what you described. Maybe it will present again down the line (and perhaps differently.) Especially if it happens again, I wouldn't hesitate calling the vet.

[LyonsFamily]

I hope you meant anesthesia instead of euthanasia as I haven't heard of any reactions in any breed to the currently drugs used for anesthesia. They do have issues with Ace for sedatives and their low body fat can be a problem with regular anesthesia.

I think it sounds vestibular too. Odin had a 2 day bought of dog vertigo last year. It scared the crap out of me and my husband showed up to pick me up from work (I worked at a vet clinic at the time) and told me "Odin fell down the stairs today" and proceeded to tell me how he was wobbling and couldn't walk. He turned out to just have an ear infection and it cleared up with antibiotics.

There's also a chance it could be neurological. DS can have spinal issues since it's common in GSDs. Cauda Equina (Lumbosacral stenosis) is what Odin has and it can develop into a more severe case causing gate problems if the spinal cord gets compressed enough. I was worried his disease was rapidly progressing when his vertigo appeared. There's also wobblers which is up higher near the neck.

[fetch]

My advice, assuming your dog is 100% back to normal, would be if it happens again to tape it (the entire episode if it is episodic, including verbal responsiveness during and in the postictal phase if it appears seizure-like) and then get both the dog and the video taken to your local, in-person, doctor of choice posthaste.

Breed specific anesthesia: http://www.cliniciansbrief.com/sites/de ... thesia.pdf

[montecarlogirl87]

thanks everybody... I agree that I think it's an ear issue... but I don't think it's anything major

I wasn't watching her at the time she fell, so I can't say for certain, but I *think* she maybe tried to scratch it without bracing herself properly cus she was busy eating... she was scratching that one ear and shaking it the next day... I looked in it as best I could with a flashlight, except for one tiny spot of blood, prolly from where she scratched it, I couldn't see anything wrong, it wasn't even really dirty with wax or anything... so far this morning it doesn't seem to be bothering her

[karenz]

thanks everybody... I agree that I think it's an ear issue... but I don't think it's anything major

I wasn't watching her at the time she fell, so I can't say for certain, but I *think* she maybe tried to scratch it without bracing herself properly cus she was busy eating... she was scratching that one ear and shaking it the next day... I looked in it as best I could with a flashlight, except for one tiny spot of blood, prolly from where she scratched it, I couldn't see anything wrong, it wasn't even really dirty with wax or anything... so far this morning it doesn't seem to be bothering her

Since you mention this I will chime in. Xander occasionally scratches at one or the other ear and shakes his head. We have a very dusty area in our yard and I think when he runs around out there he gets dust in it. When I notice him doing it I clean his ears with some stuff I bought from the pet store. The first brand I bought he didn't like. I think it maybe burned, like it had alcohol in it or something. But I tried another brand and it works great. As soon as I clean his ears it immediately fixes the problem. I don't go deep, just the inside down to where the canal starts but not down in the canal because I don't want to damage anything. He has never fell over from it but I could see where that could happen because sometimes he shakes and scratches so violently that I wouldn't be surprised if he lost his balance doing it.

[fetch]

Conservatively, 2/3 of a dog's "L" shaped ear canal you cannot see - not even with a flashlight. Even with an bonafide otoscope, you can only see down the canal to the tympanic membrane (ear drum) and that's if the pup is very compliant to begin with. This limited viewing depth means there's lots of good stuff comprising a dog's ear you can't normally see even if the membrane isn't intact.

Foreign bodies (grass awns particularly this time of the year...), otitis media, and otitis interna you are not going to see outward symptoms (flashlight or not) other than generic, non-diagnostic, manifestations like head/ear tilt, head shaking, and scratching. Don't forget, just for fun, to go ahead and throw assorted growths on the rule out list along with tympanic membrane rupture as well. But do remember, it's pretty rare for dogs (as opposed to cats) to have ear mites so should be near the bottom of said list as a result.

If the external ear is otherwise normal and ear cleaning with a good, evaporative (so no moisture is left behind to spark off a case of otitis externa), ear cleaner solves the problem? Great! If not (or the dog tries to eat you/screams when you go to clean), again, check in with your routine veterinary care provider. Especially considering excessive (abnormal) head shaking can turn on a dime and add an aural hematoma into the mix for added complication, time, and expense.

Personally, it wouldn't be a huge, honking, flashing red lights, automatic trip to the doctor's billboard of concern to me per se, but I'd be on heightened alert and closer attention paying if a dog I own is losing his/her balance simply scratching his/her ear, normal ear or not. I would want to know if it's repeatable and, if so, why...