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BishonVonAachen
Puppy
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:31 pm
Tell us about yourself: I'm a 22 year old part time student who recently got a dutch shepherd puppy who I would like to either do schutzhund with or possibly mondio ring with. He is about 5 months old and been so far trained purely using marker training without any corrections thus far. I am looking for some help with him as he is dog reactive when on leash, inside or in the car while driving.

Hello

Post by BishonVonAachen »

Hello from Colorado. After owning and growing up with a couple German shepherds, my friend with a maligator who I was rather fond of talked me into giving a dutch shepherd a go. About a year and a half later here I am with my very own Dutch Shepherd. I have heard a lot of back on forth on it as to consider him a dutch or a malinios as he is a fawn?? :huh: The only concern that I've had so far with him as hes now almost five months old is that he seems to be very reactive towards other dogs when we are out walking, he will growl and bark as well as sometimes lunge at the other dogs. But when slowly introduced to them he seems very submissive towards other dogs? Licks their muzzles and will roll onto his side and back. :duh: Could the leash restricting him from getting to the other dogs being frustrating him enough to cause his reaction towards them? I have been trying to work with him outside of his reactive zone but it never seems to stay the same distance, sometimes hes good 10ft away other days it seems if he even sees a dog he starts to lose his mind. He is wonderful puppy and very social other than this odd behavior and will try to get attention from every person he meets, especially kids and has never been mouthy towards people.
leih merigian
Working Dog
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Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:20 pm
Tell us about yourself: Had a GSD, am getting a DS puppy in a few weeks. Compete in agility, obedience, and cross train in tons of stuff. Found out about this site from the DS Rescue yahoo list.

Re: Hello

Post by leih merigian »

Hi Person from Colorado,

You're in the correct section, but how about a name? ;) Also, in the user control panel, you can create a signature so you don't have to type your name every time you post.

I'll wait for the experts to chime in here, but I don't think it's a DS if it's a fawn. Perhaps a DS mix? With some luck, our genetics expert will see this and offer enlightenment :D .

Regardless, sounds like you have a nice pup there!
BishonVonAachen wrote:...The only concern that I've had so far with him as hes now almost five months old is that he seems to be very reactive towards other dogs when we are out walking, he will growl and bark as well as sometimes lunge at the other dogs. But when slowly introduced to them he seems very submissive towards other dogs? Licks their muzzles and will roll onto his side and back. :duh: Could the leash restricting him from getting to the other dogs being frustrating him enough to cause his reaction towards them? I have been trying to work with him outside of his reactive zone but it never seems to stay the same distance, sometimes hes good 10ft away other days it seems if he even sees a dog he starts to lose his mind. He is wonderful puppy and very social other than this odd behavior and will try to get attention from every person he meets, especially kids and has never been mouthy towards people.[/color]
It sounds to me like your puppy is concerned about these situations with other dogs (i.e., this is not coming from a place of confidence). What the leash does is provide pack support; when he's pulling on the leash and creating tension, he has your support to continue being a jerk.

I think you should continue with the desensitization/counter-conditioning you are already doing, and just go with the flow regarding his reactive zone changing. Also, you'll have to prevent him from engaging in the lunging/barking behavior (I know, when you're out in the world, you can't always control the distance from other dogs...).
leih merigian
Vrijheid's H'Geyser
Zodiac vom Younghaus (over the bridge)
Central VA (near Charlottesville)
It's never too late to have a happy childhood...
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vneerland
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Re: Hello

Post by vneerland »

Welcome. Like Leih already mentioned, it would be nice if you could give us your name, since I doubt you sign your checks with your screen name. :twisted:

Two DS's can create a fawn. It would be the compilation of recessive genes, and both parents would have to carry that recessive. This happens a lot more in dogs that come from a KNPV/working background, but very rarely also happens in officially (Dutch) papered dogs. In the short haired variety, the stock that has been bred more from show lines, has mosty eliminated the recessive fawn from their puddle. Tha long haired variety has relatively more fawn amidst their population, but they are such a small group, bordering on dangerously low numbers, that they would do good not to focus on that glitch too much for now, until they have a healthier population, numbers wise. As it stands now, the breed club in Holland will not allow a fawn to be bred (and supply papers to the offspring) I have personally found that the fawns act (a lot more!) like malinois than the brindle littermates.
But let me shut up. Maybe the genetics experts can shed light on your dillemma. :lol:

As far as your pups behavior towards other dogs. I agree with the advise that you are going to have to work through that. It is likely born out of fear for the other dogs. Puppy classes with a lot of exposure to other (friendly!!) dogs might help, especially if you have a good instructor who can guide you. Be firm when he displays his unwanted behavior, and never soothe or calm him. Make it a 'oh no you don't' type of session, followed by lots of praise when he complies and quits the antics. But really, best seek someone close to you to help you out with this. Internet diagnosis is just a tricky thing.
ImageJudith Van Neerland Dutch Shepherds Image
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Kristie E
Training Dog
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Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:09 am
Tell us about yourself: I have had a DS for almost a year. Gwen and I are considering participating in PSA and or possible Ring Sport. I also have a Great Dane. I have grown up around working GSDs and my last GSD was a working K9 officer. I am all about dogs and animals in general and want to learn as much as I can about training.

Re: Hello

Post by Kristie E »

Hello!! WElcome, Mr. "x" ! ;)
the little bit I know about fawn DSs is a lot less than Judith does...so I'll leave it there.

As for the barking lunging stuff... without seeing it in person or knowing the dog very tricky to know what is really happening. Along with the desensitization and socialization, I would use focusing exercises such as the focus heel or fouss or what ever it is you use and learn your dogs "tells" for when he is getting ready to amp it up and start the focusing exercise.

Gwen is reactive to some people and strange things... so I have learned that in order to turn the switch on or off (basically, I see what is going to go down and let her go instead of focusing her on me). So there is my two cents :twocents: the bill is in the mail.
Kristie
Rommel's Guenhyvar (Gwenice the Menace) BH, PSA PDC sleeve
leih merigian
Working Dog
Posts: 1960
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:20 pm
Tell us about yourself: Had a GSD, am getting a DS puppy in a few weeks. Compete in agility, obedience, and cross train in tons of stuff. Found out about this site from the DS Rescue yahoo list.

Re: Hello

Post by leih merigian »

vneerland wrote:Two DS's can create a fawn. It would be the compilation of recessive genes, and both parents would have to carry that recessive.
See, tol' y'all I'm no genetics expert! Thanks, Judith! (And, I guess I'm kind of surprised, too...)
leih merigian
Vrijheid's H'Geyser
Zodiac vom Younghaus (over the bridge)
Central VA (near Charlottesville)
It's never too late to have a happy childhood...
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Christie M
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Re: Hello

Post by Christie M »

vneerland wrote:Two DS's can create a fawn. It would be the compilation of recessive genes, and both parents would have to carry that recessive.
So what do we call them? What is technically correct? I am inclined to call a fawn dog out of brindles a MalX and a brindle dog out of known fawn/brindle breeding a DSx. It seems like that is the standard on the www.bloedlijnen.nl website. Is that a good reference for figuring out what is really acceptable. I know MANY people calling fawn dogs out of brindles DS and selling them as such. In many cases, when looking at the pedigree they are mostly mal.
Christie Meyer
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Be proud of the things that you have taught your dog. Be humbled and grateful for all of the things that your dog has taught you. - Unknown
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BishonVonAachen
Puppy
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:31 pm
Tell us about yourself: I'm a 22 year old part time student who recently got a dutch shepherd puppy who I would like to either do schutzhund with or possibly mondio ring with. He is about 5 months old and been so far trained purely using marker training without any corrections thus far. I am looking for some help with him as he is dog reactive when on leash, inside or in the car while driving.

A little good, a little bad

Post by BishonVonAachen »

He was the only fawn in his litter while the rest of his litter mates were all very dark brindles. (not the most computer savvy person forgive me,but have now gotten my signature thing working) Going back over his lines there are a lot of KNPV titles, so what is technically correct? Is he a Dutch? A Malinios?A combination between the two?
I've started working on the watch me command with some mixed success. When I can see the distraction coming I can quickly change directions and do a mini obedience session, the harder part is people letting their dogs run free and popping out from around corners or bushes :eek: . (another issue being trying to convince my neighbor that the leash law does really include him and his three dogs as well :ds: , all big dorky lovable labs thankfully but not helpful for training right now)
leih merigian
Working Dog
Posts: 1960
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:20 pm
Tell us about yourself: Had a GSD, am getting a DS puppy in a few weeks. Compete in agility, obedience, and cross train in tons of stuff. Found out about this site from the DS Rescue yahoo list.

Re: A little good, a little bad

Post by leih merigian »

BishonVonAachen wrote: I've started working on the watch me command with some mixed success. When I can see the distraction coming I can quickly change directions and do a mini obedience session, the harder part is people letting their dogs run free and popping out from around corners or bushes :eek: . (another issue being trying to convince my neighbor that the leash law does really include him and his three dogs as well :ds: , all big dorky lovable labs thankfully but not helpful for training right now)
Oh, the bane of any responsible dog owner! I hate out of control, unleashed dogs. They're everywhere, too.

Sounds like you're making progress, tho...keep up the good work, dude!

Can't help you with what to call your pooch...I was the one who thought you couldn't get a fawn DS to begin with :mrgreen: .
leih merigian
Vrijheid's H'Geyser
Zodiac vom Younghaus (over the bridge)
Central VA (near Charlottesville)
It's never too late to have a happy childhood...
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Marjolein
Working Dog
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Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 7:17 pm
Tell us about yourself: I'm a Dutchie myself ;-) but live in Germany with Johan and my two DS's Cobber-Dingo and Knivil (Dingo and Ivil to friends...)
Location: Warbeyen, Germany
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Re: Hello

Post by Marjolein »

welcome :dslook:
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