Dutch Shepherd Forum

I always wondered what kind of training/education the K9 handlers have to go through before they can become a Police K9 handler. Is this from State to State different?

I have heard (through the grapevine) some officers just become K9 handlers because of the higher pay. Have no clue about dogs, sometimes don't even like dogs. If a "tough" working dog bred for police work ends up with one of those handlers, oh my.

That leads me to another question... How "tough" needs a police dog be? If it is too "flammable", it probably can't be used as "crowd control" at big festivals or such. And how often are they really sent after a criminal to "take a bite". There are probably liablity concerns and such.

I always wondered. Hopefully we have some folks on this board who know.

The training of the handler differs from department to department. Here we have city, county, state and special drug task forces. Also, the appointment of those handlers depends on the department. We have had some come who have never even owned a dog. Others have extensive handling experience and are very competent.

Here in TN the state program, in my opinion, is the best. The dogs are purchased green (with no training) most of the time. The handlers attend a 14 week "school" where they are trained together. The person who runs this school and program is an extremely good teacher of dogs and people. At the end of the 14 weeks, the dogs are very well trained, and the handlers know how they got there.

Other than that, there is no consistency from county to county or city to city.

Some departments buy fully trained dogs from vendors. In that case, the vendor typically provides a handlers course. Length of course depends on the vendor.

Other departments buy green dogs and let the handlers raise and train the dogs in conjunction with other local handlers. The success of these handlers and dogs is dependent on the resources around them. In my opinion, this is typically the least successful situation. Too many "handlers" got fully trained dogs, worked them for a number of years and then think of them selves as trainers. Maintaining foundation is very different than teaching it.

In MI I had a group of guys who bought puppies from me and raised their own K9s. They were extremely good trainers and did awesome! But I think that's pretty rare.

So there is no clear cut answer to the questions. Every department is different, both in how they choose handlers and how they obtain their K9s.

Thanks Christie for taking the time to respond.

We have one k9 at my department that is dual trained in drug detection and bite. We have had him with us for almost 2 years. I have never seen an incident where he was actually sent to bite. Most people see him and comply. Not saying its always the case by any means it's just what I have seen here. He is so calm most of the time I forget he is even trained to bite. Scent work is his love. The officer went through courses with the dog, but the dog had already gone through training when we received him. To me it would seem best if handler and dog went through courses together from the beginning. I love when we run him through our pods to search for contraband on inmates. People give up some crazy things thinking he can detect it.

kchristy wrote: People give up some crazy things thinking he can detect it.

The power of a K9 !

Oh yes lol it's amazing. Really, I have had inmates all out fighting and not giving up, but if the handler and k9 are in the facility and show up as backup, we don't have to do more then pop the door and tell them to lock down. They just seem to realize maybe this fight isnt that important. Pretty funny I have even used him as a threat lol I knew one of the inmates was hoarding his night meds, so I told him to give them up or I'm getting the dog, sure enough he gave me more then what I thought he had. The power of k9s are amazing. They think gds are mean wish I could get Merlin in here on a grumpy day lol

Could you enroll with him in a K9 training program?

That would be pretty awesome, I think Merlin would really enjoy it. I don't think there is anything like that close to where I live. The department bought theirs from ok city about 4 hours from me. I have even tried to contact trainers here just for basic training with no reply. Luckily Merlin has done really well with listening to me. But there is a lot of good advice on here do that helps a lot.

Schlussdibusti wrote:That leads me to another question... How "tough" needs a police dog be? If it is too "flammable", it probably can't be used as "crowd control" at big festivals or such. And how often are they really sent after a criminal to "take a bite". There are probably liablity concerns and such.
I always wondered. Hopefully we have some folks on this board who know.

Christie took the time to answer the handler education part. It differs, but it's not always great, nor always sad, who steps up for the position, and their personal motives differ greatly.

The how tough does a K9 need to be question can be answered along the same lines.
It depends on the department, as well as the handler. A dog that needs to work in bad neighborhood in Detroit should be a lot tougher than a dog in rural South Dakota. The first one should be able to hold up against a suspect who is high on PCP, feels and fears nothing and fights like a madman. The second one might have to track a demented old lady who wanders off from the nursing home, and get her home before the dangerous cold of nightfall. He'd best not bite the scared old lady when he finds her, fending him off.
In the ideal world, the ideal dog can do everything, but there are levels of adequacy. Dogs for smaller departments generally do better if they have a saner more social attitude as a starting point. Same as their handlers, really. A big city cop is mostly exposed to different dangers, rules and mindsets than small town collegue. Their training should allow them to function in either environment. Their general attitude, though, will change with the circumstances they are constantly exposed to.
Of course, I assume that you are referring to dual purpose K9's with your 'how tough' question, since straight drug dogs, in theory, often only have to find drugs.

thanks for answering the second part of my question. A lot of responsibility lies with the head of the police K9 department to make the right choice for their needs. Detroit PD probably has a standing order for Van Leeuwens

Schlussdibusti wrote:thanks for answering the second part of my question. A lot of responsibility lies with the head of the police K9 department to make the right choice for their needs. Detroit PD probably has a standing order for Van Leeuwens

Possibly. Though I think they might not fit the detector dog bill, so hopefully they are not looking for dual purpose dogs.

vneerland wrote:

Schlussdibusti wrote:thanks for answering the second part of my question. A lot of responsibility lies with the head of the police K9 department to make the right choice for their needs. Detroit PD probably has a standing order for Van Leeuwens

Possibly. Though I think they might not fit the detector dog bill, so hopefully they are not looking for dual purpose dogs.

LOL, I used to train with some of the Detroit PD guys. They bred a lot of their own stock and then they went to vendors with imports. Ironically, Detroit had DS on their department LONG before most anyone else.

Hey Christie..
the Livingston County Sheriff's dept currently has a DS on the force.. my husband went to the gas station one day on his way out of town with the dogs and he came out to find the car surrounded by a bunch of deputies.. they were admiring Gwen for once.. (most people can't get past the great dane and never see Gwen).. He was surprised to see a DS in the neighborhood .. do you have any idea where his dog came from ??

Aren't most K9's trained as dual purpose dogs? All of the dogs at MSU were ... and when my husband went off to get his K9 Lonnie.. Lonnie was just barely a year old and they trained together.. pretty much neither of them knew anything ... some of the best training they did was with Lansing PD who had some very experienced handlers who also bred and trained their own dogs..

How long ago did you train with the Detroit PD guys, Christie? I'm wondering if you knew Narc's parents.

Kristie Elliott wrote:Hey Christie..
the Livingston County Sheriff's dept currently has a DS on the force.. my husband went to the gas station one day on his way out of town with the dogs and he came out to find the car surrounded by a bunch of deputies.. they were admiring Gwen for once.. (most people can't get past the great dane and never see Gwen).. He was surprised to see a DS in the neighborhood .. do you have any idea where his dog came from ??

If its the same dog that he had before I moved, its an import. The handler loved the dog, but he was an example of no off switch. Spin, spin, spin......CONSTANTLY!!

Kristie Elliott wrote:Aren't most K9's trained as dual purpose dogs? All of the dogs at MSU were ... and when my husband went off to get his K9 Lonnie.. Lonnie was just barely a year old and they trained together.. pretty much neither of them knew anything ... some of the best training they did was with Lansing PD who had some very experienced handlers who also bred and trained their own dogs..

No, departments choose if they want single purpose or dual. Many departments don't want the liability of a bite dog. For Tn Hwy Patrol, all of the dogs go through detection school first and get certified on odor. Then those with potential for to Patrol School and hopefully pass. But many people work non-herding breeds, and the labs and spaniels typically don't bite

I knew of one department where each handler had two dogs: one for scent work and one for apprehension. I am not sure the real mentality behind that

k9katet wrote:How long ago did you train with the Detroit PD guys, Christie? I'm wondering if you knew Narc's parents.

It was pretty sporatic and then I mostly trained with people who were an offshoot from that training program. But I might. Do you know their names? The breeder (Skalski, I would assume)? Date of Birth?

He's out of Asta and Nia. He was born 6/19/2003. Yes, Skalski. I think both parents were imports and both working police dogs.

k9katet wrote:He's out of Asta and Nia. He was born 6/19/2003. Yes, Skalski. I think both parents were imports and both working police dogs.

I know Asta absolutely. Ugly dog, but worked his butt off (and his owner said that too.....so no one jump on me ). I think that Nia came from Howard Burgess, but I don't remember her being an import. I can ask him. That breeding was a repeat, and I went to look at a previous one. If I had gotten there earlier, I may not have Willow. Small world.

Asta was an IMPRESSIVE dog. That's very cool that you have a dog out of him!!

In prior administrations with our local city PD, handlers changed regularly using the same dogs. If the Chief got upset at one of the handlers, he would desk him and 'give' the dog to another officer. It was a fiasco, to say the least. During that time, one dog was left in a car in the heat of the summer during the day while the officer slept and unfortunately the k9 died. New administration brought some positive changes to the k9 force. They have three Mals and one DS. Both our parish(county) and city K9 units buy trained dogs from vendors who continue their annual certs.

Our local K9s are not man trackers, S&R or cadavar. So that is what I am training for right now with a group in north Louisiana. This group primarily trains and donates K9s to small depts with little or no K9 budget. I have donated many rescue GSDs over the years to this organization. It's a great feeling to take a rescue GSD from deathrow and know he is now working on the line. From what I have seen, most of the handlers from these little towns are not working dog saavy and can not handle a truly 'hot' K9. And with their small budgets, they can not afford a liability suit either so their dogs are mostly detection although they do train in patrol because the dogs have to be versatile. The K9s live with the handler families too so they have to be safe.

I read online on several working dog forums that there are many different schools of thought on K9 bitework. Bark/hold vs bite/hold seems to be controversial. As many trainers there are nationwide, there are probably just as many methods.

GSDNanny wrote:. So that is what I am training for right now with a group in north Louisiana. This group primarily trains and donates K9s to small depts with little or no K9 budget. I have donated many rescue GSDs over the years to this organization. It's a great feeling to take a rescue GSD from deathrow and know he is now working on the line.

I bet that feels wonderful, Denise. What a great contribution!!!