crate problems

[Dutchringgirl]

Both girls go in a crate when I go out. The problem Ive been having is when I get home and let them out Sadie will go after Thalie and get into a fight. If I let Thalie out first, she will wait playfully at Sadies crate. Even if I shoo Thaie away, they eventually meet up in the kitchen and start up. It seems more like a playfull, "Hey We are out" going bad. I can keep them in the basement if I go out but for some reason, after a few times Sadie is afraid to go down there. Boogie man? I dont want to leave a collar on Sadie in the crate for fear of her getting stuck. Even if the crates are in different rooms this happens. As I am writing this, im thinking, I could let Sadie out first, put a collar on and make her sit, be on a leash and she has to stay with me until she calms down?

Your thoughts?

Thanks

[alspyce]

Can you think back to how this started?? Must have been a "lead up to behavior" at some point in time?
Has she been trying to "herd" Thalie, or take advantage of her good nature at other times, maybe without you noticing it? Being a bit more pushy lately? Getting away with anything with you, or the kids, that might make her think she's moved up in rank?

To be honest, this is the type of thing that I'm not real nice about when I correct the behavior. I decide who lives or dies here, and it is explained to them very thoroughly when these things begin. I would go with the leash until it's clear that you won't tolerate this behavior.

[Dutchringgirl]

YES chris, its a hearding thing, They only do it to each other, not the kids. Thalie has always done this but never aggressivly, she would always do this to my parents basset but the basset would ignore her or just wait her out. Sadie really wants to be top dog and Thalie is a bit submissive at not letting her. And I take responsibility for not always doing what I should to curb Sadie. Their crates used to be in different rooms, but now they are next to each other in my office. Since I had gotten new carpet i the living room, I moved the other crate. I could get a big towel or rug and move a crate back into the living room and that would at least give some time.

I think I am going to try this.... I have two prongs, Im going to make one bigger to loop over sadies head, so Ill let her out first, Thalie does wait quietly in her crate, Hold Sadie and teach her a new lesson.

[Dutchringgirl]

Okay, it worked. I made a long prong collar. Took Sadie out firs and put her immediately in a down. Put the collar on, made her stay. I kept eye contact while I let Thalie out. Made Sadie stay put, had to put her back once, while Thalie went by. Thalie left her alone and went to check the groceries. Went to put them out and all was good. I do make them site with eye contact while im opening the door and they wait for the release to go out.

[Christie M]

If my dogs are excited when letting them out, it is pretty common for the younger ones to grab an older one out of displacement. For the most part, they work it out. Occasionally, if it has built up to a "stupid" point, then I do the same kind of exercise. Let them out under control, do some motivational obedience and then they are fine because the moment has passed. Nice handling.

[Dutchringgirl]

Its pretty much under control, well as much for Dutchies . Sadie has been okay with going in the basement now when I go out so they both come up the stairs at the same time so there isnt that goofy stuff. I guess she ate the boogy man that was down there. When they are in the crate, Sadie sits, then I let Thalie out, but I dont immediately let them outside, I just ignore them both and they settle right down. That seemed to help alot too. There was another area that saide does that thing, at night when we are watching tv, as soon as Sadie hears the "click" She is right up and stares at Thalie just waiting for her so Sadie can pounce. Keeps me on my toes.

[Choochi]

Mine do some thing similar, and it makes no difference if I let one or the other first, they will wait for each other. Even if I take one outside, they'll wait for the other at the gate to come out. It's their little thing to beat up on each other and yell as they go ripping out back. If they're doing it while they're outside and both are running, it's not bad. If they get caught up doing it inside the house as they come out of the crates where there isn't a whole lot of room and they're smashing into each other and pushing each other into furniture, that's when one usually takes things more personally. Athos is particularly bad at such instances as he's got pretty damn good self control (crate games) but it comes at a price that all that pent up energy just gets extra coiled up and as soon as you give a release word, he explodes and is just looking for a target to body slam or grab. I keep collars on mine so I can just grab the collar as he flies out (and he swings around and it's about the most dramatic crate exit ever). I give him a couple seconds to stop bouncing and his head starts to work again, then we're good. They're also both pigs, so if they know they're getting food (for sitting, a heavy default) when they come out of the crate (I make sure they know I just reached into the cookie jar on top of the crate before reaching for the crate door), their focus is on getting that cookie when they come out and they both pretty much fly out into sits. They'll still do their raw raw raw when they go flying out the door after I let them go but it's not as intense.

So I'm thinking... if you don't want to involve collars... work with them individually, set a pattern depending on where who's crate is. You open the door one comes to your left the other to your right, or a place marker on either side of you. Start off individually, then do together (maybe keep lines on just during training). I would do this like crate games with both dogs at once, yer in yer out game, but started with one dog at a time. End goal: both doors open at same time, dogs stay in crates, you release by name+release word, dog goes into place position, repeat with the other, send one in, send back out, send other in, send other in, send both out... etc mix it up. Give them that extra step to perform when they come out of their crates and make it a 100% enforceable routine. Stuff like this, if you build it up logically in small steps you won't need corrections and you'll have them drive into a desired behaviour. It gives you second clear cut control position and location from which you can decide who to release first and at least you're breaking up that patter they've already picked up. I would just be careful at catching any early signs that you don't start to have the same behaviour creeping up with them being released from their stay in their secondary position.

[leih merigian]

Great plan, Choochi!

[Dutchringgirl]

great !!! They do wait for each other, thalie isnt as bad with that but I let Thalie out first and she waits by Sadies crate, then I let sadie out, she is a ball of energy, and WHAM they both start running. It is much better now. I am afraid to leave collars on, Sadie will get caught, she will get caught on her own shadow. If I bring her out, I have the leash looped back on itself, no chain, this seems to keep her the quietest, the collars wind her up. Then I bring her out, sit, put the leash on, Let Thalie out and make Sadie sit, then on release, she leaps out. I also stopped letting them right outside, the seem to relax more, then after they relax, I let them out.