beware of dog?

[katm4110]

Today a young woman was knocking on my door. Stella was barking so it was obvious I had a dog inside. I cracked the door to ask what she wanted and she was looking for the previous home owner. I said he didn't live here and before I could shut the door she sticks her hand on it and pushes it open and starts to tell me that she is selling some type of books. Stella was right behind me and lunged at her. It happened very fast. I was able to block Stella (with my butt ) and get out the door closing it behind me. The woman jumped back I explained to her how close she was to being bit and how upset I was that she pushed my door open. I asked for the name of her company and supervisor but of course she just left.

She was no threat to me, just a pushy sales person but I don't know what would of happened if my butt wouldn't have blocked Stella (and let me tell you her ramming her head in to my ass cheek hurt! I now know how she was able to bust the gate open! Stella isn't a very big dog but holy crap is she strong!) but I do know that I would have probably been liable if Stella had bitten her.

I'm putting up a "No Soliciting" sign because sales people annoy me in general (and some are just creepy especially since my husband is at work all day and I'm home alone with the kids) but I wasn't sure about a "Beware of Dog" sign. If she were to ever bite someone would that just be me admitting I knew my dog was aggressive? I didn't correct Stella because honestly she did EXACTLY what I wanted her to (maybe not to this particular person but someone pushing my door open is usually not going to be an okay situation) We are going to alert the power and water company that we have a dog and ask that they knock on our door before reading the meter so that I can make sure the dog isn't in the yard but I'm unsure if I should put something outside indicating there is a dog on the premises. I just don't want someone to get bit for being stupid.... but don't want to stop Stella from being protective either. I'm not even sure that she would have bitten the lady today but I just don't want to take any chances.

I know a lot of you have dogs that are trained to do bite work and such so how do you alert people that there is a dog to be cautious of? My husband gave Stella lots of praise and some ham when he came home for lunch today... he feels a lot better knowing I have her home with me while he is gone!

[Raven]

From past personal experience and legal advice: I do not have Beware Of Dog signs. I have warning signs that a guard dog is on the property. I also have "no solicitor" signs, for all the good they do. (They knock on the sign that's adhered to the window of the door.)

[LyonsFamily]

We have a sign that says "dog in yard, please keep gate closed." It stops people from cutting through our yard without explicitly saying beware of dog. I've been told insurance companies frown upon the beware of dog signs. I share the yard with 2 other units in our building, so while it is fenced, Odin's never left outside alone without me or my husband.


I own my own business and get a lot of deliveries to my home, so it's unacceptable for Odin to approach someone at the front door unless told to do so. He gets put into a place command nearby, until told otherwise. I can't take the risk of certain shipping companies refusing to deliver if something were to happen.

That being said, there's a window next to the front door and if I don't recognize the person and they don't have a package or delivery truck, I usually tell Odin to 'answer'. It's basically my approval of him barking like a fool near the door. He also has a few German commands that basically mean jump up on the window sill and watch/stay and together those are pretty intimidating, without any need for biting or growling. I never open the door to unexpected guests anyway. I always know when a delivery is coming, and friends and expected visitors are told to call first so I can put him away properly.

[LyonsFamily]

I have warning signs that a guard dog is on the property.

You haven't had any problems with the guard dog signs? In Chicago special procedures are required for dogs classified as 'guard dogs,' so I'm pretty sure it'd fall under the same thing as beware of dog for us.

[Raven]

Nooooooooo, not yet I haven't had any problems. Now I'm concerned. Several years ago I was warned off the "beware" signs and advised to be more specific. Crrrraaaaap.

[Sugars Mom]

Today a young woman was knocking on my door. Stella was barking so it was obvious I had a dog inside. I cracked the door to ask what she wanted and she was looking for the previous home owner. I said he didn't live here and before I could shut the door she sticks her hand on it and pushes it open and starts to tell me that she is selling some type of books. Stella was right behind me and lunged at her. It happened very fast. I was able to block Stella (with my butt ) and get out the door closing it behind me. The woman jumped back I explained to her how close she was to being bit and how upset I was that she pushed my door open. I asked for the name of her company and supervisor but of course she just left.

Sugar barks like crazy when someone (she doesn't know) comes to the door. I always make her sit about 10 feet or so from the door before I answer it so she doesn't lunge (and who knows what else...doubt she would bite, but hey, wouldn't want to take the chance just like you said). She has a hard time containing herself to not come and check out who it is right away...and she sounds very intimidating , but I know it is really an alert or territorial type of barking, and being unsure when she doesn't know who it is. Once she sees that I'm ok with the person she turns into a curious dog, wanting to sniff and check them out.

[Christie M]

This is where your "no questions asked" obedience needs to come to play. And I am sure it will come with the additional training that you are doing.

We have "Dutch Shepherds on Premises" signs out, but mostly because I buy anything that says Dutch Shepherd on them. Signs have a good and bad side. They may warn someone to be be safer. But they also admit liability because you are saying you know your dog may be a risk.

A solid "Sit Stay" regardless of the circumstance will serve you better than any sign. Luckily, its not very hard to practice. Leash, treats, collar and someone to knock on the door and simulate various circumstances. We always need behaviors at a heightened state of agitation. So once behaviors are introduced, we have to practice them at the same level of stimulation.

[Dutchringgirl]

I have had some fun with the dogs, I let them poke their heads out so people know whats behind door #1. Good door training is very important, I let mine bark then they "backup" and sit. Once, in my other house, i had left the dog bowl outside, the UPS guy came up and spotted the bowl, I saw him out my kitchen window , he very quietly sneaked up and slowly crouching down left the package on the bench, I almost died laughing, the poor guy knew I had a dog, at that time both the DS and Mal, but didnt know where they were, in or out.

[katm4110]

We put her in a down position and tell her to stay.... haven't practiced with someone at the door yet just when we're leaving (we live on a busy street and now that she isn't kenneled when we're gone I don't want her running out the door when I'm trying to get the kids out) she does so good at staying once she's down but sometimes it takes me telling her platz a few times or even forcing her down (if she's really excited and thinks she's leaving with us) I don't open the door until she's down (and even then I stand at it while the kids walk out in case she'd ever try to bolt) She's doing so good with this... Ill definitely start working with her to do it while someone is at the door if I need to answer it. I think I'll skip the signs, except for the no soliciting. Stella learns so quickly so either a. she's been worked with or b. she's just extremely obedient so I'm pretty confident that with continued training she'll be no problem to control. Today was a good reminder for me though that having a dog especially this type of dog requires extra caution.

[Travis]

I've heard there are legal ramifications to "Beware of Dog". So we went with "Warning. Dogs on Premises". Easy to justify in my opinion as it can mean simply, "don't leave our gate open" or any number of innocuous claims as opposed to "beware" with its implications of a known biting risk.

At the same time, anyone shoving your door open or even preventing you from closing it, is technically committing breaking and entering as per a cop buddy of mine and in my opinion deserves to be bitten.

[katm4110]

Could I put a sign on the gate that says dog on premises please do not open gate? Honestly I can't imagine anyone would go in my yard if she's out... she looks pretty intimidating.... my biggest fear is the front door but like Christie said with a good stay command this won't be an issue. We have decorative glass on our front door that is hard to see through and no storm door so my husband said we will look in to an intercom which would probably be a good idea.

[Choochi]

Oh I would be so infuriated if some dim wit pulled a stunt like that with me! I'd be chasing her down the street.

Good girl Stella for doing her job, regardless of all the noise they make, not all dogs would have the guts to engage the intruder in such a situation. You should be very proud of her, but still what a dumb ass. It would have been such a pain in the ass if she did make contact. Dealing with AC, cops, possible quarantine, possible legal actions from dum dum, house insurance... So yeah a solid sit stay and maybe you should consider discussing training a door scenario with your trainer.. and maybe you should discuss training an out ;P

You can put up some signs that don't specifically infer a dangerous or protection trained dog is on premises. Maybe just a dog silhouette sticker, or some thing that just says a dog lives here. No soliciting or no junk mail signs, please let me know if you find one that works, I have a feeling it would have to slap people to be effective. You can't fix or in this case stop stupid.

[LyonsFamily]

Could I put a sign on the gate that says dog on premises please do not open gate?

That's basically what we have and it works really well. Before we moved in the landlord had one that said please keep gate closed, so I just replaced them with one that added dog on premises. You could also do something cute with a silhouette that says Dutch Shepherd lives here.

[leih merigian]

What a good girl! I'm sure by now you have no doubts about her protectiveness and her ability to alert you if needed.

You'll get there with the training.

What an idiot; I can't even belive that woman pushed her way into your home! Grrrrrrrr

[katm4110]

What a good girl! I'm sure by now you have no doubts about her protectiveness and her ability to alert you if needed.

You'll get there with the training.

What an idiot; I can't even belive that woman pushed her way into your home! Grrrrrrrr

Yeah, no doubts at all! She is so loyal and protective. She rarely barks but when she does I know she's on alert. I am thinking about having the trainer come to the house for a session so we can practice her stay command while I answer the door.

[Nordis]

I'm unable to find any Dutch Shepherd At Play signs on the internet, no surprise! I did see a Belgian Malinois At Play sign buy who wants to replace all that lettering and then draw all those brindle markings!?! As well, there are some classy looking aluminum signs available for around $50: try a search for Gentle Dog Beware Of Owner. Along with that design there is a generic Dog At Play sign as well. I don't feel the sign reading Dog Friendly Home really gets the message across as clearly. So there are nice alternatives to the possibly liable creating standards of Beware Of Dog and Guard Dog On Duty. However, I have to add that I really do laugh at the signs similar to I Can Make It To The Fence In 2.8 Seconds (German Shepherd silhouette) Can You?

Ideally, and just my opinion, I think the storm door is a very good consideration. Perhaps it doesn't have the visual appeal you want for your home, but I think I'd be ok with giving that up for the sense of security it would provide by preventing a dog reacting to irresistible stimulus in a bad way, and by keeping people outside but still allowing me to be able to say, "No, I don't want to buy anything unless you have a more obvious No Soliciting sign since it seems mine is defective." And it makes quite an impression to be able to see as well as hear a large dog slam against a storm door while barking a very clear, "We don't want none! Git off mah land!" That is, if you should ever need to give that kind of message!

As suggested by others, I think as many sessions as necessary of known and unknown friends/people coming by and creating training opportunities is in order. People who are welcomed into the home after the training instance for visiting to further the lesson in that aspect, as well as ones who are there to provide a stimulus and then leave. Perhaps after these two situations are understood and dealt with as desired (with the level of intelligence we're working with), you may want to share the information that named individuals can soon be anticipated simply by saying, "SoAndSo is coming over. Let me know when SoAndSo gets here."

And I agree with others here about this saleslady. It's really too bad you weren't able to get her information as she is endangering herself, putting the company she works for at risk, and most importantly putting the homes and families and dogs she is dealing with at great risk. I doubt that I would have thought of it at the time, but now I'm prepared and I think if I ever have a similar experience I may suddenly become interested in buying, at least for as long as it takes me to get this person's and their employer's contact information!

Honestly, with the stories we hear about the things people do, victimizing others, I don't think making efforts to protect family, self, and home is a bad thing or should be used against anyone. She was forcing her way into your home after you dismissed her. She's violating your safety and who is to say what she's really there for? Stella determined she was up to no good. Stella did her job which is to protect. Good on her.

If you're concerned about future negative experiences bringing into question the safety of your family member, start right now and document Everything. Ask trainers for assessments of her. Get them in writing and signed. Do the same with neighbors, friends, and anyone who has regular contact. If you want to make it easier, ask if they are willing to do it, then write it yourself and ask these people to read it and if they agree it is what they would have written ask them to sign it. Do it regularly. Keep a file. And if and when you wind up in court, ask these people to come and support both of you. Sadly (because it works both ways and this seems like a lack of logical and fair thought on the part of a court), in some cases, the number of supporters that show up in court can sway the decision of a judge. I've seen this happen. Know the laws where you live, and adhere to them. California has a six foot leash law. This means if a dog fight between two dogs leads to a court case, and one dog was on a six foot lead and the other on a 30 foot lead, the case will be decided for the one on the six foot lead and the owner of the dog on the 30 foot lead will be held responsible, regardless of which dog started the whole thing!

I can see how having a Canine Good Citizen certificate or title would be beneficial as well. Also any titles or certifications for Therapy Dog work you may wish to participate in. I'm open to being wrong and welcome corrections, but it's my opinion the more good things a dog has to show as evidence of being a safe dog the less likely a bad situation caused by an ignorant person will result in negative repercussions for the dog and family.

Good luck on your efforts to protect Stella from the stupidity (wish I could say ignorance, but it doesn't apply in this case!) of people!

[LyonsFamily]

I can see how having a Canine Good Citizen certificate or title would be beneficial as well. Also any titles or certifications for Therapy Dog work you may wish to participate in. I'm open to being wrong and welcome corrections, but it's my opinion the more good things a dog has to show as evidence of being a safe dog the less likely a bad situation caused by an ignorant person will result in negative repercussions for the dog and family.

You're definitely right about that. There are a few insurance companies and rental companies that will except a CGC on a dog to allow coverage for certain breeds that are otherwise deemed dangerous.

I believe most, if not all, ringsports have a similar version that dogs have to pass before competing to insure correct temperament. IPO here has the BH and French ring has the CSAU. It's a very good backup to have in case there ever is an accident and people get sue happy.

[katm4110]

What does the CGC entail? Stella is very different when we are out and about.... if people approach the car, people she doesn't know at the trainer's, and of course other dogs she gets anxious... barky... growly.... yet at home in the house she's comfortable.... sweet... calm. (Pretty protective of the yard when the kids are out side especially) but I don't know if she'd even be able to get the CGC. I'll be a lot more cautious with her when people come to the door... what scares me is there was no hesitation she just lunged.... good to know that in a threatening situation she's going to react with out hesitating but definitely something I need to be in control of!

I'm making my signs today. I have a Cricut and a sick obsession with mod podge so I'll make something cute to hang on the door! Stand by for pics!

[Nordis]

Oh, you're going to make me have to learn how to post a link? Very well. The CGC is through American Kennel Club. This link is to the page on their site that has links for probably everything you need to know about CGC. The fifth link down on the left side of the page is a video of a dog taking the test. It's going to be a breeze for any Dutch that has a person that communicates with her/him.

http://www.akc.org/dogowner/training/ca ... /links.cfm

And if you want ideas about what's already out there, sans Dutch Shepherds, just do a search for Dog At Play Sign and you'll have the standard offering everyone is used to. Personally I think the background doodles are distracting and detract from the dog on the sign. My idea would be that I want to make it clear there is a dog here.

I certainly understand the surprise regarding her instant reaction. This is why I personally am always paranoid of having a dog that I don't know everything about: past events and experiences and such. How does one predict what actions may be the stimulus for "aggressive"/protective behavior, and even more so, how does one possibly move fast enough to prevent such reactions? I know that at least with most of the individuals of this breed communication can solve these issues, but how do you know what to communicate about if you haven't had the experience yet that tells you a random person doing "this" around dog will cause dog to react instinctively with "that" response? This is a genuine concern of mine. Perhaps I should start a thread about it.

I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with, and really happy this will have been a one time incident that you'll be looking back at and laughing about.

Oh yea! The link works! Treats for me!

[leih merigian]

Laura, there are a lot of training schools that offer CGC classes these days. You get to practice each of the ten exercises, and typically, at the end of the class, the instructor is able to do the testing. One big advantage to this is that the tester isn't a totaly stranger to your dog by the time the test comes around .

I totally support you working one-on-one with your trainer, and having him come to your home is a great idea (I mostly go to my clients homes), but taking a class now and then is a good idea, too, just to be able to work Stella around other dogs in a safe environment, other people, more distractions, etc. If you consider doing this, it's a good idea to check out classes by visiting yourself, sans dog. Get permission first from the instructor, of course, but you'll be able to tell quickly if you like how s/he handles the class, conveys information, and manages any issues that come up (with lots of dogs and inexperienced handlers, issues do come up ). And, you just might find yourself having so much fun with Stella that you take classes often. There are so many different class options these days, it goes way beyond the old boring obedience routine.