Temperments with other dogs?

[Sarahk]

Hi all,
We're (hopefully) getting a DS here in a few months, and I was wondering about how your DS or how DS's in general do with other dogs. I obviously know not all individual dogs follow general breed characteristics, but are Dutchies known to be aggressive with other dogs? I'm having a difficult time finding information about this subject. I obviously know it takes positive exposure and socializing, but I also know some breeds of dogs are just born with dog-aggression. My current dog is a Vizsla, and they are as a breed known to be friendly with everything, but I still socialized him daily with other dogs/people/etc, and he loves everybody... I'm just hoping it will be the same for our future DS....

Thanks!

[Dutchringgirl]

You wont find any info on how DS's act with other dogs, because like all dogs and humans, its individual. There are so many variables involved with telling how a dog will interact with other dogs. There is no way to say. This breed was meant to work with sheep and be with them all day, not be sociable companions like, pugs for example.

I have two totally opposite DS's. Thalie, gets along with everyone and I never worry about her, I can take her to the dog park [ I hate them though] or on a hike and if we come across other dogs, she is fine. Sadie on the other hand, I do not put her in the environment because I know she is more protective and could be a problem. I do not encourage passer by's to let the dogs say hello when I have Sadie. My parents have a Basset that , well, basset hounds get along with everyone and the BH and Sadie are now best friends.

When I got Sadie, even though Thalie would be fine. I did not just let them spend all day together. I worked it up slowly. I would advise to do the same even though your current dog is friendly. Just plopping a new dog into your environment and expecting all to be will , can cause much more problems. Get a crate if you dont have one or an X pen and keep them separate for much of the day and slowly let them get used to each other.

A friend of mine had a chiwawa, that kept Sadie in her place, but again, there is no way of predicting how this will go. Take your time and dont rush anything.

[simbathedog1]

Our DS gets along great with our smaller female Australian Shepherd mix. He is actually submissive to her and they play fine together. We had her first and he came into HER home and was respectful from the beginning. He does not like "outsiders" however, and would just as soon never see another dog and he would be happy. He avoids them, but if they approach him too closely he snarls and snaps at them. I think it is fear aggression based. Certainly NO interest to make new dog friends. Maybe he thinks he's human??

[Owned-By-Hendrix]

Yup, take things super slow. Make sure the puppy meets super friendly dogs at first. I would even keep sessions short and sweet and build up to longer sessions.

My guy likes other dogs as long as they aren't small and high energy. He's still learning doggie communication so as of right now he prefers bigger dogs.

[Sarahk]

Thank you. The introductions are going to be slow ones. We're getting a puppy, and our current dog is crate trained and we're going to do the same for the new pup. I was just wondering how other people's dutchies do with other dogs.

[Dutchringgirl]

Again, it all depends on the individual dog. Thalie gets along great with everyone and Sadie dosnt. You really cant say what breed will get along with dogs and what breed wont. Its all on individual basis. take your time and watch your body language. Keep the atmosphere happy and calm. Crate train the pup and slowly introduce them together.

[Raven]

Don't know how often this happens, but just to put it out there: Thor's previous owner told me that he grew up with a GSD and all was fine until he hit about eight or nine months (which is when prey drive can really start to kick in) and became extremely AA, but even more DA than AA. I can't swear how it was handled made it worse, but, at the very least, I suspect it didn't help. I can call him off critters now, and though there hasn't been an opportunity to call him off a real dog...I think he'd still go over threshold in zero-seconds, especially off flat-collar lead, unable to focus on anything except....

[LyonsFamily]

I disagree on it all depends on the dog. There are breed traits that you have to take into account. While social-ability can vary depending on the dog, their lines, how they were raised, etc, you're most social DS is never going to be more social than your most social Golden. If that were the case, we wouldn't have breeds and breeders wouldn't be able to predictably produce dogs suitable for certain jobs.

Coming from group hunting breeds (English Setters) into the world of working dogs, malinois first, now DS, I can tell you there is a big difference in temperament including being around other dogs. Elli is very very social, Odin is aloof, but can be around other dogs after being introduced. If you compare that to an English Setter that's very very social and one that's a bit more aloof for the breed, you'll see a big difference. Elli's recall was perfect after only a week, we added distractions in the next week, mainly because of the breed's trait to be so attached to the owner and how they process the world. I'm still trying to get Winston, the oldest English Setter that I used to show, to be reliable off leash and he's 9. He cares more about birds than anything.

You have to look into the traits of herding breeds, especially upright herders, and what makes them suitable for herding and the bite sports. DS like control, I'm not talking about dominance stuff, but they want to be aware of the situation and are suspicious of things that might be off. There's a reason why a DS can perform well in bitesports and do things like the defense of handler and object guard. They're also bred to be faster and more independent with a firm grip. Hunting breeds, including your viszla, are bred for a very very soft grip to hold birds without damaging them and to be able to hunt in groups. Should a fight break out, a lot more damage will be caused by a DS rather than a hunting breed.

A disagreement between the setters might end with a hump or some choice growls, where a DS can draw blood while quickly correcting another dog and fights are more common to break out. Even with a stable dog there will be times you have to supervise and read body language. I'm sure Lisa has a time or two she had to separate the girls. I know Odin and Elli can get snotty if someone rolls a ball under the bed and the other doesn't like the fuss being made while trying to get it.

I can tell you that with the many English Setters coming through our house growing up, not a single one needed to be separated and that includes intact males and even grown littermates living together.

Beagles and Foxhounds routinely live in very large packs of 100+ and have no problems, eating, sleeping, working together WITHOUT training or intense socializing. That's not something Dutch Shepherds can do. Same sex aggression exists more in the working breeds as well, especially KNPV lines that include German Shepherds.

As for your original question, a DS is not going to be the social butterfly your Viszla is. With proper introductions and training, they will likely co-exist in the family and can possibly tolerate and even interact with strangers. Whether they play together all the time or need to be separated when you're gone will depend on the individual dogs. DS will always prefer their family over anyone else. Even with dogs, Elli prefers Odin over other dogs whereas a Setter will gladly go and great everyone and play with however is willing. If a stranger were to break into the house, I can tell you from experience with our cable guy and meter reader, Odin would attack them, Elli would chase them barking and do a bark and hold. The Setters would invite them in and give them a tour of the house, if they had thumbs, they'd probably pour tea and make sandwiches as well.

Also to add, another good post from the dog snob. http://thedogsnobs.com/2014/01/28/genes ... t-by-fang/

[Karin]

Stephanie, Awesome and clear description of the DS. Thank you.

[Stacy_R]

Here is a great article written by an awesome trainer/behaviorist in NC on introducing a new dog to your household if you already own a dog/dogs. It is written from the mindset of introducing a rescue dog into a foster situation, but the truths in it still hold.

http://thek9coach.blogspot.com/2013/01/ ... -home.html

[Owned-By-Hendrix]

This is a great article find Stacy!

[Sarahk]

Love that response, Stephanie. Stacy, thank you for that article! I like the different phases idea.

[bakerjo3]

Hi all, very interested in this topic as my female Dutchie (Billie Jean) is 5 months and has recently had dog aggression problems at day care. The facility touted structured groups where they match up dogs with a like personality but now they are telling me that she can't play in the group setting because she has had several incidents of clamping on to another dog without letting go. She has done the same thing at the dog park but I have learned to watch for aggression and pull her back to calm down with me before letting her play some more. Wondering:

1) Are play groups/day care/dog parks generally not right for this breed? Meaning, am I tempting fate by putting her in those situations? I hate to cut it out her life because she clearly loves play time, but I don't want to be irresponsible.

2) Is there a good shot that training (plus maturity) can eliminate the behavior? It seems from reading other posts that this may just be my Dutchie's personality and unlikely to change much.

Outside of this she is responding well to training and coming along nicely, and a has a very sweet temperament. Its frustrating because I want her to have opportunities to socialize during this critical stage.

Jody

[Raven]

watch for aggression and pull her back

Curious what happens when you pull her back. She's on-lead, I assume. What type of collar? And exactly what do you do when you pull her back? (E.g., raising your voice?, giving command?, turning/walking away?, is she over threshold?, etc.)

[Owned-By-Hendrix]

The day care may not be handling her correctly. I'd be curious as how they're handling her versus how you handle her when she does that. Also "clamping and not letting go" when the human said so or when the dog says so? Hendrix has a mini bull terrier best friend and their favorite game is "find the ear." His friend goes for his ear and nibbles/bites as Hendrix writhes around like a drunken idiot. Yet the second he starts to whine his friend let's go. For them it's a game and we'll intervene to cool off for a minute if it looks like one or the other is getting rougher and they're fine; go right back to their game. Is she going for the ears as an aggressive move or is that how she's trying to initiate play? Occasionally Hendrix will go for a floppy ear as a play move, which if not well recieved by owner of said floppy ear he'll back off.

[johninny]

my first reaction was the same as Kira's. not sure - need more info/discussion like Sharon was seeking/initiating. but i wondered if aggression is being confused with normal aggressive play tactics of a DS. in dog park when you personally observe, is she mean-spirited or just ''aggressive'' in her play mode? i would not trust what a day care facility had to say, so be careful about over-reacting to a situation that may not exist as you might in the the process bring about reactivity as she picks up on your vibes. you/we need more detail/careful observation and description from you.

[Dutchringgirl]

Many of you know my stand on dog parks. HATE THEM. I cant say though that this breed wont do well but I would venture to say that maybe many of them wont giving they are protection dogs by nature.

Thalie does great anywhere with anyone, any dog, you name it, she is fine. Sadie is totally opposite. She is very protective.

I have had my girls in day care environments and they both did well at one place. Another place, Sadie did not play well with others. It could be the dynamic of the group that day. There are so many variables.

[Owned-By-Hendrix]

Agreed on the dog parks. What I wouldn't give for a parcel of land though! Also agree on the dog daycare - people at our place know what Hendrix is and don't try to mold him into a regular house pet. Making sure the place knows what your dog is and how that may affect her/his temperament (more protective, aggressive player, hyper hound, etc) and how they'll work with it is a huge part of choosing a daycare, for me.

[bakerjo3]

Thanks for the feedback. I should clarify what I observed at the dog park - my Dutchie would play normally (which for her is lots of mouthing and wrestling) and appears consistent with the other dogs in terms of level of aggression. In two or three instances she has clamped down hard at the neck when the other dog was submitting or appeared to be trying to get away. I became concerned after one incident when the playmate dog yelped and mine had to be made to let go. Since then I have watched her play much more carefully and called her back when I see that it might go in that direction. Sometimes I do leash her for a bit to calm down and have her perform some basic commands before being allowed to play again.

What the day care described rings true but I know she loves play and isn't aggressive because she is scared or unhappy, so perhaps a different facility would yield a different result.

I was mostly worried about removing these elements from her routine because so much of the research I saw stressed early and frequent socialization. Reading this board and talking to our trainer it seems that socialization in those formats isn't necessarily right for Dutchies.

[Owned-By-Hendrix]

Hendrix used to pick on my friend's puppy (a whopping one month younger than him, also a puppy). He did something similar - would get dominate and then when the other dog submitted he kept escalating. Basically he was being a jerk because it was more than clear the other dog submitted. Maybe perhaps she's being... Well, a jerk to the other dog? I know my guy can be a total jerk and gets pissed and holds grudges. For all we know maybe the other dog was giving her the finger or vice versa. Just a thought - I'd be curious as to what others think.