Attacking his lead?

[cordeliandemon]

Okay so today's been an odd one, I brought demon across the city to work today and in preparation for the trip I know I had some pretty high stress levels which likely added to the situation. For the past few days when on a walk demon keeps reaching a point where just does NOT want to keep going, he decides he wants to turn and walk home and if I don't oblige he starts to bite his leash growling and swinging around me in circles.

When he was smaller he did something similar and I stopped it by switching to a light chain leash he couldn't sink his teeth into and giving him a spritz of water anytime he tried to chew on it. I thought the same might work again but I couldn't find his chain lead and used kodas much heavier one instead, it's shorter than his.
On the way out the door to let him pee and stretch his legs before the car ride I was confronted by a family member about something silly and this upped both his excitement causing him to pee in the hallway and my own stress levels knowing I have one more thing to clean up.
The walk started out different, there was a different air to it and he could feel the heavy ness of the lead and didn't seem too pleased about having half a foot less room to move. He seemed very aware of the clinking of the chain behind him also, maybe it reminded him of the "trainer" with the choke chain I'm not sure, but halfway down my avenue he started to bit the leash.
The clanking around of the chain as he did so seemed to make it worse, now he wasn't just biting he was getting angry at it, there was no more circling he was now lunging up at the chain.
I could see the situation escalating bit by bit by bit and "oh no" I'd left the spray bottle back at the house... Every lunge seemed to be getting aimed higher and higher up the chain, then he was going for the leather hand grip, from there he was staring to bite my hands, then he just started going for my arms and nothing I did seemed to help. The bites were being given more and more pressure and he was breaking the skin so I had to separate myself from the situation a bit... I looked around at my surroundings and tried to find anything to draw his focus elsewhere, I threw a rock away from me, didn't work, then I tried to grab a branch from a tree and it wouldn't break off but I saw his eyes dart to the tree, so I grabbed a big leafy one and shook it around which startled him enough to let go of my arm and jump back a foot. I seized the opportunity and grabbed a stick off the ground and as he came back twards me I just placed one end in his mouth and held the other (he IS still a teething puppy after all!) from there on we both just walked back to the house holding one end of the stick each, him wagging happily...

I don't think I'll be using a chain on him in any way from now on 0_0 ....
He was actually amazing for the rest of the day, calm and quiet in the car, great walking around a strange neighbourhood (with a nylon leash!) and when I was busy painting he was content on his own in the houses backyard. I'm not too sure what to think of that chain incident, maybe he's still a little traumatised?

Ontop of the days events I was just replacing the little corner of newspaper in his room incase he needed to go during the night (he usually dosnt) and he was eating a treat in his crate, then I hear a trickle behind me ... And he's peeing on his own bed!!! And he wouldn't STOP! It went on for well over a minute no matter what I did he just stared at me and kept peeing! he had been outside less than 20 minutes earlier, and oh god.... I started hearing shouting downstairs... "What's going on up there?! There's a leak coming from your room! It's huge! There's water all over me and the couch!!!"

How on earth am I supposed to explain THAT one ...

[Owned-By-Hendrix]

Question - if he wants to go back why keep walking? He's still young right? He may be telling you he's tired.

I wouldn't use a chain leash on him considering his bad reaction to the chain with the trainer - if you want to I would introduce it slowly and positively. He probably was amped up too, so I would both not read too much into this but also take it seriously. However the fact he came up the lead at you is a HUGE communication there - he's telling you he's done. I wouldn't push him because 1) I don't want to encourage/repeat the behavior, and 2) it's damaging to your relationship. You did the right thing by finding something to divert him and turning around. Think of it like a trainer pushing you to complete 20 sets of push-ups if you can really only do 10. Eventually you get so fed up and snap. That's what he did. Next time I would heard back when he wants. You can always take a different way back or do a little obedience too to keep his mind working.

[cordeliandemon]

90% of the time he starts doing it when we've been walking less than 10 minutes and I'd ideally love for him to have done a pee before returning inside so try go just a little farther, maybe change direction or walk through some bushes or zig zig a few trees to keep him distracted and happy long enough to get to his favourite pee spot. Despite the crate mess earlier he's really picky about where he goes and holds it all until he finds the right spot.
I've though about going back anytime he does this but worried maybe it would be rewarding it? He could decide if he dosnt like anything just start biting the leash and snarl and you'll get to leave.. Maybe I've just been being over cautious.

[Raven]

While I agree that his behavior was telling you something, I don't know what it was. There seems to have been a bit of backstory leading up to the walk.

First, how many training sessions do you have with him daily and what are you working on? Are you marker training? (Sorry if I should know the answers from previous posts.) I'm asking for general insight but also to understand how you are handling his mouthiness, if he is mouth-y, and when he bites, as puppies do (two different things).

If I read correctly, he sometimes bites a non-chain lead. I've corrected this in the past (albeit it with a fully grown adult) by just stopping and doing nothing and saying nothing. Their hissy-fit didn't get any reaction. When they let go, we calmly started walking again. It won't get corrected with one instance. They need a few go's at it to not only connect the dots, but to learn their unacceptable behavior will not break you down or get you riled. They can test...but they won't win.

It worked for me. And it's what I suggested a friend do when her GSD pup was biting the lead, rolling on the ground, wouldn't budge, and generally offering a lot of drama to walks. I asked her work on it in a familiar area (her yard) and while it took a few sessions, it worked.

[LyonsFamily]

Do you guys do any tug games? I would think the simplest solution would be to put the bite on cue and to teach a proper out. These guys are bred to bite and tug and if they're not getting a correct outlet, they'll make one up.

[dogbyte]

if i read this right, someone has used a choke collar on this puppy? switch to a nylon martingale type collar if you need some control, but only put it on when you are walking/working him..so many think a drivey puppy needs a choke...metal type...but they don't. and he may have actually been scared of the noise/feel of the chains. Take treats with and reward good and ignore the bad..

[cordeliandemon]

Thank you for the feedback! He seems to have stopped this behaviour completely. I started petting and giving him some more love on the walks, stopping at random intervals, practising his sit, lay down and stay then continuing untill he's done all his business or decides he wants to go back inside.
Our training is constant, I don't marker train but I do use sound cues so he knows he's done something good/bad and to bridge the gap between the behaviour and him being rewarded if it's the former. I just reinforce and practice obedience while we go about our day to day activities.
He does seem to be a bit sensitive and gets easily overwhelmed if there's just too much being asked of him in the one day so I'm going to be more careful about that. He seems to enjoy going on new routes when we walk but it can be a bit much, especially if there's a lot of traffic, people, dogs. Yesterday we overdid it, I took him to work and walked him twice in a bad neighbourhood were he behaved well and then on the way home went for another walk down the pier. It was dark by the last walk and night seems to amp up his guarding instincts because he was keeping a very intense eye on anyone we came across and occasionally made some charging motions or growls if they stumbled a little too close. While i may have to correct that if it escalates I don't have any issue with it right now as I appreciate the protective behaviour and don't plan on trying to make him any more social, it makes me feel safe with him and we don't usually walk in very busy or populated areas anyway.

[Raven]

So glad things are moving along! Yea!

I'll add something I was once told long ago. I understand the thinking, but think much depends upon the situation, the dog and the correction. Take it for what it's worth.

That corrections shouldn't be given when a dog acts aggressively toward people: if it's fear-based, it will make them more fearful; if it's not, you're teaching through association of correction that people "are bad," further confirming the dog's beliefs.

Again, I can see where this has some merit, at least in theory if not in practice, but certainlycan't see where it's a one-size-fits-all or an absolute.