Xena is getting LIPPY! DS experience NEEDED!!!

[Lauren]

Hi all, My new little Xena is a sweet heart. she has stolen our hearts. I love her dearly and she is beginning to learn the rules of the house. she is 9.5 weeks old now.

She is very submissive with other dogs and new people and is pretty good in general about following directions... BUT there is a problem that has been ongoing and I want to make sure that I am handling it properly. She is getting lippy with me on occasion. Usually it is when she gets very driven and wants to eat the chickens or the cats and I tell her 'No"... she does not respond to a leash snap or a touch, I have to actually put my hand on her then she will go for me growling and snarling. This has also happened when it was nap time (she naps in her crate) and she flopped down somewhere and wouldn't come when I called her, so I gently went to pick her up and take her there. Growls, snaps and snarls. Tonight, I put here in the dog room and she ran for the door, I blocked her with my foot and she slipped by. When I reached for her (I am not angry when I do this) she turned and went for me again.

When she did this at 8 weeks I mentioned it to her breeder and he said that I need to snap harder on the leash (I'm afraid of hurting her since I snap pretty noticably) and not take any lip from her. "It will only get worse if you don't stop it now"

Well, I agree. but I am not sure how to go about it. A scruff shake escalates it, a strong tug on the leash also makes it worse, I actually have to pin her down and then FINALLY she will give up the struggle. She and I make lots of eye contact throughout the day (I think they are loving looks). She sometimes follows me and sometimes doesn't. She is STARTING to listen to "no". I am not a big yeller, and tonight when i pinned her very gently to the ground, I was calm.. She went form snarling to still to wiggly to yelping and then averting eyes. (all in about a minute) The I put her in her crate with no fuss but she did try to bolt for the open door...

Please help! I want to make sure that I don't damage our future relationship by over or under reacting!!!!
All ideas are appreciated! Ps she is very food motivated!

Thanks, Lauren

[tedge007]

Hi Lauren,

First off I want you to know that you are not alone! I have been through this and actually am still going through it. For 15 years, I owned German Import Dobermans that all came from strong working lines. I pourchased these dogs as pups or young adults for both sport and personal protection. I thought that I knew what strong dominant dogs were. I can tell you this, compared to my female Dutchie, all of my Dobermans were big affectionate babies! Some of those dobermans would rip you to pieces if you even got loud with my wife or I and certainly would of put alot of holes in someone if they were attempting to break into my home, so they were the real deal in the doberman world. Dutchies are different! Alot depends on the lines that your dog comes from but as a rule if your dutchie comes from working lines it should be a strong dog. They have such high drive as puppies that they can easily become a pain in the ass to deal with. My female wants to bite anything and everything she sees. Including me my wife and kids. While she is doing this purely in prey, the bites hurt just the same especially with those little baby teeth. Mine is now 51/2 months old and I am just now starting to see her calm down A LITTLE! From the time she was 8 weeks old she has been a handful. If I had purchased her to be just a family pet, she would have been returned to the breeder a long time ago. I knew ahead of time basically what to expect with her especially for the first nine months or so but even I was suprised at how much fight drive and natural aggression she had at such a young age. The slightest little things can turn her on. I guess you could say she has a short fuse and can become lightly flammable. What I suggest doing with your dog, especially at such a young age is always try to remain as calm as you can. My trainer used an analogy that I liked alot. He said if you walked down the street and hit someone as hard as you could in the face and he either fell down or attempted to fight back you probably would continue fighting and try and prove you were the tougher one. On the other hand if you punched the same person and they just stood there looking at you and smiled, then you would probably get humbled really fast and not want to try it again. I think same can be said with these pups, they see you yelling at them or pulling away quickly as you playing back and if they have alot of fight drive in them they will keep going because genetics are telling them that they have to win the battle! Now at 9 weeks old, your pup being mouthy is very normal and that will start to fade away as it starts to teeth. As far as the growling and signs of dominance goes, I try not to make a big deal of it at an early age. I make sure I control my pups environment 100% of the time. That means never being loose in the house. Mine is never allowed around my two kids without me there ever! She sleeps in her crate at night and spends her down time in her 10x10 kennel outside during the day. I take her out to work her and exercise her 3 times during the day for about 20 minutes each time. In addition either my wife or I take her for about a 1 mile walk each evening. Us letting her be herself and bite on a sleeve or her tugs or ball on a stick for a total of 60 minutes or so a day seems to be enough to keep her calm the rest of the day. If I let more then a day go by without doing thius though then I have a real problem on my hands and she is jumping off the walls of her kennel. These dogs need to work period! We have been bringing her to the training center since she was 10 weeks old and he has been doing obedience with her once or twice a week since then. Nothing serious just having fun with her but teaching her control at same time. I have been told by my trainer and also by the breeder that they calm down alot around 9 months and alot of the biting and growling towards immediate family should calm down around that tiime. Now lastly I want to mention that limits do have to be set. You have to maintain total control over the dog at all times, they need to know you are alkways in control and that they should look to you for the answer. I pretty much let my girl get mouthy with me as long as she doesnt snap at my face. When i take her out and let my kids pet her I am right there if she gets too rough with them she gets put away. Believe me they are super smart dogs and learn really quick, mine now knows that she has to be gentle around my kids or playtime comes to a quick end. Just hang in there, what your dealing with now I think is well worth the reward in the end. If by chance your dog turns out to be too much for your situation or if it is more dog then you wanted, I am sure there are alot of people on this forum with alot of experience with these types of dogs that could help you find it a suitable working home if thats what would be best for everyone. Good luck to you!

[dutchringdog]

That was the first thing I made sure I nipped in the bud with Sadie. At only 4 months when I got her she was super mouthy, strong firm NO's really set her back and she got it quick. For a loooong time though she would still just stick her nose in your face. But consistency was the key, you have to be on them every second and every time they do it, cant miss one time. Like Tom said, 9 months is a calmer time, I saw a big difference. I also saw a mental growth at 6 months too. Just keep on her and let her know you wont take it.

[Christie M]

This topic has been addressed a few times on here - so I would recommend going back through some of the previous threads.

The reality is, how you correct this behavior can be tricky and very dog dependent. What works on one dog, may escalate things to a dangerous level in another. I would find a trainer who is modern in technique, but has experience with working dogs and helping them live in a home setting - which is totally different than how many working dogs are raised. Even if you only meet with this person occasionally, they can discuss minute details and see specifics that internet training can never offer.

Good luck with your girl! I am sure you will get through this stage!

[Dutchringgirl]

I would find a trainer who is modern in technique, but has experience with working dogs and helping them live in a home setting - which is totally different than how many working dogs are raised.

This is very true and I dont know if some people realize that there is a difference. When I was training Ring Sport, I was probably one of the only owners whos dog was let in the house, let alone each had their own dog bed, they looked at me like I had two heads. These dogs are in Kennels and only come out to train. They want that edge to them, where in the house we dont.

[Lauren]

Thank you all for your answers. I really appreciate the time that you took to answer.

Miss Xena is AWESOME. I am in no way trying to re-home her. I had Airedales for years and they settle in at about 6 years old!!! And we have had no more episodes since I wrote to you all asking for advice. I think that Tedge's advice on staying non-reactive is right on the money. BUT I am very confident around her about my leadership role. She is testing.

Sadly I do not know her lineage (no papers were given with her) but I did ask for the LOWEST drive of the litter. She is incredibly smart. She does not bite us hard anymore and she understands the NO command when trying to eat my shoes and pants. The kids are good with her (they are older). In the past three days she has learned the hand and VERBAL signals for down, sit, wait, and "place" (go to your mat). She is working on "speak".... but this little girl was trying everything from smacking her right front foot on the ground to sticking out her toungue (!) before she hit on the 'making a sound'.

Thanks for the advice. It is so nice to know that I am not alone. I tried the search feature, but must not have typed in the right words. This has definitely been a wonderful, difficult, enjoyable experience. I just don't want to blow it. Thanks again, Lauren

[dutchringdog]

HAHA, any pictures of her sticking her tounge out ????? Dont worry, you are not alone.

[vneerland]

Hang in there Lauren. You were given good adivce (and the best adice is to find a reputable trainer to guide you along) We (as in, those who have been involved with the breed for a long time) tend to forget that what seems normal to us, may be a horrible handful to someone else. I currently have a rescue pup, non DS, and I am thrilled and amazed that it does not bite me, and that one stern verbal command is enough to make her apologize. I even think that I could get used to that. How easy would life be! So the reversed would apply to those who have been owned by different breeds before. A working line DS needs a good deal of guidance to turn into a model citizen. I hope you find the real (time) help you need.